In search of LS1 swap

[marshallnoise]

boo vanos, yay pooshrods?

I'm not against VVTi, I was just thinking about how difficult the install would be. And you do know that pushrods also have VVTi, right?

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[325isdan]

I'm not against VVTi, I was just thinking about how difficult the install would be. And you do know that pushrods also have VVTi, right?

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a 2j fits no problem. my brother has one in his 89

[DER E30]

Its hard to find a decent LS for a decent deal, my buddy has been looking for an L33 or LM4 for a month or 2 now and hasn't found a decent deal yet. Probably gonna have to do a Cleveland pick a part or something like that.

LS1 in F bodies (camaro/firebird transam) and Y bodies (corvette) are kinda overrated, the original LS1 blocks can't be bored over any more than a clean up pass, so no boring without resorting to sleeving the block.
LS2 if you can swing it, but the L33 can make 400 hp with some work. The L33 is a 5.3L/327 that has the LS6/LS2 "casting 243" heads on it, so it can flow well but is choked by the truck cam.
The Corvette and GTO versions of LS1 are better than the F body version, slightly, they have the LS6 throttle body and Intake.
Beware that the Y body has a weird ass oil pan on it and most of the acessories probably won't work. I can see if they work once my buddy gets an actual engine anf gets it in his car...

THe trans you can use an F body t56 98-02 (LT1 version t56 is different and needs some parts swapped to work but can be done) or a GTO t56 also works but it needs F body shifter. The Caddy CTSV has a super weird shifter set up and uses a guibo rather like a BMW, but I don't think anybody uses those.
Y body t56 has COMPLETELY different case ends and mainshaft so you'd need a grand or more in parts to change it to work as an f body, so unless you get a corvette trans for free, I'd pass. They make good internal parts donors for F body trans as they have different (better) triple cone carbon synchros.

[rzerob]

Its hard to find a decent LS for a decent deal, my buddy has been looking for an L33 or LM4 for a month or 2 now and hasn't found a decent deal yet. Probably gonna have to do a Cleveland pick a part or something like that.

LS1 in F bodies (camaro/firebird transam) and Y bodies (corvette) are kinda overrated, the original LS1 blocks can't be bored over any more than a clean up pass, so no boring without resorting to sleeving the block.
LS2 if you can swing it, but the L33 can make 400 hp with some work. The L33 is a 5.3L/327 that has the LS6/LS2 "casting 243" heads on it, so it can flow well but is choked by the truck cam.
The Corvette and GTO versions of LS1 are better than the F body version, slightly, they have the LS6 throttle body and Intake.
Beware that the Y body has a weird ass oil pan on it and most of the acessories probably won't work. I can see if they work once my buddy gets an actual engine anf gets it in his car...

THe trans you can use an F body t56 98-02 (LT1 version t56 is different and needs some parts swapped to work but can be done) or a GTO t56 also works but it needs F body shifter. The Caddy CTSV has a super weird shifter set up and uses a guibo rather like a BMW, but I don't think anybody uses those.
Y body t56 has COMPLETELY different case ends and mainshaft so you'd need a grand or more in parts to change it to work as an f body, so unless you get a corvette trans for free, I'd pass. They make good internal parts donors for F body trans as they have different (better) triple cone carbon synchros.

Thank you this is a lot of useful and helpful information. I planned on buying a magnum T56 unless I found a deal with engine trans combo. I am searching auctions now for power trains. I am disappointed to find out you can't really bore out a LS1 unless I sleeve it.

[DER E30]

Thank you this is a lot of useful and helpful information. I planned on buying a magnum T56 unless I found a deal with engine trans combo. I am searching auctions now for power trains. I am disappointed to find out you can't really bore out a LS1 unless I sleeve it.

T56 magnum is really the best option, and easiest to find. ~3k for a brand new trans that you know hasn't been powershifted and abused? Winning I'd say, if you have the cash. My buddy just picked up a used F body t56 for 2k so for the extra thousand for a brand new, stronger, better synchros trans is :up:
The TR6060 is sort of the same trans as the magnum, but has had some of the parts downgraded by GM apparently Also many sellers are very proud of them for some reason, and have the same issues of it might have been abused etc like any other used trans. Magnum is a good deal if you have the cash.

The great thing about the T56 and magnum is that you can order all the parts to fix them direct from tremec or other resellers and rebuild it if you break it for whatever reason! (you'll never have enough traction in an e30 to break a t56 though!!!) Sharp contrast to BMW/Getrag's stance on selling just parts for their trannies!

If you head over to ls1tech.com, there's a crap ton of info about LS's in general, but yeah, the LS1 blocks can't be bored, they are 3.898 bores, the ls2 blocks and most of the later aluminum blocks can be bored over to 4 inches at least, the ls2 is a 364cube I think? with 4 inch bores.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LS_bas...l-block_engine
If you look in here, all of the aluminum block ones are just as good of candidates for swapping as the LS1, and don't mind the truck motor's low hp numbers, its mostly the factory truck cams and factory exhaust holding them back from 350-400hp. There's a bunch of different variations of the LS, and they all bolt in the same, so you don't have to hold out for the perfect LS1 unless you really want too.

Avoid the 97-early00 Ls1s if you're still set on them, they were built in the time when GM was still learning how to make their new engine.So some of them have what's known as piston slap which is the pistons rocking in the bores when the motor is cold. Not a huge deal they say as it goes away when t warms up but I'd avoid that The early ones also have crappier rod bolts that were fixed in late 00 IIRC, also probably not a deal breaker but that's some more info to keep in mind. THe early rod bolts you really shouldn't rev past the stock limiter of 6,250, where the later ones can pull 7k (7.5 if you don't do it super often) no problem with the proper velve spring kit and cam.

[rzerob]

Thanks DER E30. I will do more research on my next days off. I don't think I am going to get an LS1 now because I can't bore it out to a 6.0L so I a weighing my options. I am considering a L33 with a pro charger and maybe a couple years buying a LS2 block and building it then putting all the upgrades from the L33 on to the LS2. That might be over kill. I mainly wanted the LS1 from the f-body or y-body so I could easily go 6.0 now knowing that is not possible I have to research more and rethink my game plan. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.

[ForcedFirebird]

Just picked up a 120k ls1/t56 with drive shaft, pedals, shifter and ECU for $4500 shipped from Hawks Thirdgen on fleabay. They have a long history as a reputable F-Body reselling. They have a ls1/t56 with 85k on it now for $5500 shipped.

[marshallnoise]

Good Lord that is a lot of money.

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[ForcedFirebird]

Good Lord that is a lot of money.

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Not really. A full drop out of a running car makes swaps simpler. T56's go for $2k+ by themselves.

[marshallnoise]

I suppose it's not, but it's a lot of money for me to contemplate spending.

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[ForcedFirebird]

I suppose it's not, but it's a lot of money for me to contemplate spending.

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And that's about 50% of the swap. For the one we are doing now (in a MB e430, but similar parts to e30) it was another $3k+ for all the small items like front sump oil pan, pick up, windage, headers, mini starter, HPTuners credits etc. Adds up quickly.

[flyboyx]

Just picked up a 120k ls1/t56 with drive shaft, pedals, shifter and ECU for $4500 shipped from Hawks Thirdgen on fleabay. They have a long history as a reputable F-Body reselling. They have a ls1/t56 with 85k on it now for $5500 shipped.

i didn't realize these were so expensive. for some reason, i thought the allure was lots of power at a cheap price. i was thinking all in for 3 grand or something along these lines. i understand its harder to get a lot of power out of a bmw engine, but damn.....?

can't you get about 350hp out of a frankenstein m60/2? i don't know the economics, but 1200.00 for 2 engines, perhaps another 1500.00 for gaskets, seals, bearings and machine work(assuming no timing components are needed)

maybe you can get more hp out of a chevy, but doesn't it seem like you can get enough hp out of a bmw engine cheaper?

someone please explain the purpose?

[ForcedFirebird]

i didn't realize these were so expensive. for some reason, i thought the allure was lots of power at a cheap price. i was thinking all in for 3 grand or something along these lines. i understand its harder to get a lot of power out of a bmw engine, but damn.....?

can't you get about 350hp out of a frankenstein m60/2? i don't know the economics, but 1200.00 for 2 engines, perhaps another 1500.00 for gaskets, seals, bearings and machine work(assuming no timing components are needed)

maybe you can get more hp out of a chevy, but doesn't it seem like you can get enough hp out of a bmw engine cheaper?

someone please explain the purpose?

I love doing high-strung builds, but in the end, they are more expensive, actually. By the time you add high comp pistons, balancing, blue printing, all the head work, cams etc. The LSx is all that out of the box. Add a cam, headers and tune and you are 400+whp, and if you do want to build it high-strung, parts are dirt cheap.

[Q8y_drifter]

T56 trannies have always been on the expensive side compared to other trannies like the T5/TKO/etc. Cheapest good condition T56 would prolly be around $2K alone.

Also, LSx engine prices seem to be steadily increasing as well. There's a ton of new swap threads popping up on LS1Tech every single day and readily available bolt-in swap kits and stand alone harnesses have made the whole process a piece of cake. The amount of LS swaps being done is skyrocketing and the scrapyards know this very well. Prices were noticeably cheaper just a few years back.

[flyboyx]

the local houston lkq had an aluminum ls engine with 61,000 miles for 800.00 a few weeks ago.

i spent a good deal less than the economics john is talking for my s62/g420. it even included an aluminum uuc flywheel. i realize there aren't very many of them out there, but i felt like it was a good deal and it will certainly be enough hp for me- especially once i get the dme tuned.