M5x and S5x over M20.. Why?

[kronus]

Disagree. Shaft driven pump, expensive to replace IMS, belt, bitch tube, injector electronics buried inside the intake, one piece rocker shafts. M30 is much simpler mechanically.

[jeenyus]

Completely agree.

the m20 is as simple as it gets

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[digger]

Hi, I'm new here.

Maybe its because I'm used to m50/52/54 engines, but I just feel like working on them is so much easier than a m20. Maybe its due to inexperience, but thats just how I feel. I have nothing against the m20, but id much rather work on a m52 than a m20. Maybe its the simplicity.

This is a good discussion, though. :)

the m20 is as simple as it gets

[jhaurimn]

Hi, I'm new here.

Maybe its because I'm used to m50/52/54 engines, but I just feel like working on them is so much easier than a m20. Maybe its due to inexperience, but thats just how I feel. I have nothing against the m20, but id much rather work on a m52 than a m20. Maybe its the simplicity.

This is a good discussion, though. :)

[varg]

There's nothing romanticizing about the fact that an M50 is heavier and barely more powerful than an M20. If you're going to do a 24V swap, do one that actually makes the car better.

Plus, an M20 sounds better.

Watch me romanticize the M20 by doing a V8 swap in the future.

[pandaboo911]

M5x and S5x over M20.. Why?

Why would you want a SOHC 12 valve 6 cylinder from the 80s? It’s not magically better somehow.

A stock m50 will make more power than your m20 with chip and bolt ons. It’s more reliable too.

Dollar for dollar a 24v motor will make more power and if you think otherwise, enjoy your broken rocker arms.

People romanticize engines too much..

[digger]

I don't really agree with your definition of easily achievable. You're just buying off the shelf parts and getting an engine rebuilt to a level that any half competent shop could do.

[varg]

You really aren't getting my point.

It isn't "easily achievable." Easily achievable things are things regular people can do. Regular people can do bolt ons. Paying a shop to do it so you don't have to doesn't make it "easily achievable." With the right budget you could pay a guy like Nisse to build a hypercar-slaying E30 for you, that doesn't make it easily achievable. Building a completely new engine and porting the cylinder head is about as far from actually being easily achievable as it gets. 230whp with a turbo is easily achievable, it's literally 100% bolt ons and a tune.

Just because you or I could build an M20 in the garage that makes that power with a little outsourcing to a machine shop doesn't mean it's an easy thing to do.

If it were easy everyone would be doing it.

[digger]

Yeah it's easy to make 230whp with an M20, you know, build a completely new engine, port the cylinder head. No big deal, just bust out your die grinder and your harbor freight tools and you'll be done by the end of the day.

who said you have to do everything yourself?

[varg]

Yeah it's easy to make 230whp with an NA M20, you know; build a completely new engine, port the cylinder head. No big deal, just bust out your die grinder and your harbor freight tools and you'll be done by the end of the day. Those turbo guys don't know what the hell they're doing with their bolt-ons.

[digger]

I guess it could be "easy" if your wallet is sufficiently full that you can just open it wide and have a high compression stroker with a worked head and ITBs built and put in your car. You won't be making that kind of power with any stock M20 parts spinning around in your block though without forced induction or nitrous, short of being some sort of magician.

If it were easy, everyone would be doing it.

he never said it was cheap

it is easy though

>=2.8L, new slugs, ported head, schrick ~288, itb, proper ecu/tune, headers and exhaust

[agent]

the slowest engine worth swapping in is an OBD2 M52 or later

Maybe an S50 if it's a bargain.

[Vivek]

The funny thing is though, a basic M50 swap is hardly faster at all in reality than a decently running M20.

Steven was driving our b25 e39 wagon the other day (7 people in it, but anyways) and wondering why anyone would swap such a slow engine into an e30. There are minor improvements with extra valves and lifters but 90% of e30's would be better off with the same $/energy put into maintenance and suspension.

I'm planning an m62/6 speed for my 318...the slowest engine worth swapping in would be an s50 imo.

[varg]

I guess it could be "easy" if your wallet is sufficiently full that you can just open it wide and have a high compression stroker with a worked head and ITBs built and put in your car. You won't be making that kind of power with any stock M20 parts spinning around in your block though without forced induction or nitrous, short of being some sort of magician.

If it were easy, everyone would be doing it.

[brian52555]

Why bother even turbo'ing it? The M20 is a very underrated engine and has proven time and time again to hold it's own. 230whp-245whp is now easily achievable while still having good road manners (and using 91octane).

However, I get that kids just want to do a "motor swap" because it's almost a right-of-passage for any gear head. To each their own, we are all friends here.

I've been away from the e30 scene a while... any details on how 230+whp is easily achievable on an M20?

Thx