M5x and S5x over M20.. Why?

[lambo]

This hits home for me because I was like 90% of the way through an M52 swap with S52 cams and M50 intake plus the supporting stuff... and I couldn't bring myself to remove the M20. Now I'm letting go of any idea of power goals and I'm just going for taking the M20 up a notch. I don't even think I'll be doing a turbo. Just a good refresh on the M20 and a nice exhaust.

[Staszek]

N52 - 250whp capable, lighter than an M42. ;)

N52 is such a lovely engine. I was efficient, fast enough in the E90, smooth and sounded great.

In a car that's over a 1000 pds lighter, it would be seriously nice.

[cwlo]

Another vote for the N52. Brings a big upgrade to the e30 chassis, without overdoing it. Perfect balance.

[nando]

N52 - 250whp capable, lighter than an M42. ;)

[varg]

I love a good turbo M20 but there's definitely something to be said for NA response and simplicity. In my years of having heavily modified turbo DDs, I've had more problems with the turbos themselves than anything else and there's not enough room for anything other than a compromise when it comes to intercooling a powerful turbo M20 unless you're going to take out your air conditioning. If you're going after track days, anything NA will be more tame than a turbo M20. Even if I felt like spending the money on one my car is no good for a track day since there's no room for an oil cooler and the power delivery is far from ideal for someone who has never driven a fast car on a track before. When the surge of torque breaks the tires loose it has to be throttled out since backing off causes it to snap, and it probably is too fast for the brakes.

I'd love to have a powerful NA E30 (with torque) that has enough room for a good cooling system and cold AC. S54s are too expensive, too heavy, and don't make much torque. What ever shall I do? it needs a V8

[redsubdivisions]

I'm late to the discussion but I am one of the few people who advocate boosting an M20 over swapping for a few personal reasons. The first and important one is that it is cheaper. If you blow it up, chances are you'll be able to find replacement parts for cheap or possibly nothing (as most people toss out M20 components to make room for M5x/S5x swaps and such). There is absolutely nothing wrong with swapping a more efficient motor. The only issues I have run into were cost and modifications that I wasn't comfortable with at the time. Now swaps are going for some dollars, which makes me wonder if I should have bought a 24V motor to put on a stand to build in case my M20 takes a shit and I give myself a reason to do a swap.

I'm not going to lie, I seriously thought I would have blown up my M20 by now by cramming anywhere from 15-18 lbs of boost down it's single cam throat. It's taken down some newer cars that have surprised many people, including myself. 4 years later and it's held up pretty well. Whenever I beat on it, it's almost as if the car likes it. lol

[varg]

M52 is a seriously underrated motor from the factory. Mine was essentially a stock BMW motor. OEM cams (S52 variety) and an OBD1 intake and it was making nearly 100bhp/liter. (Mine dyno'd 225whp, so ~265bhp)

Add 20 whp to that, and possibly some real cams and you can call it 250+whp out of 2.8L... Id say thats pretty damn amazing, and I loved the power delivery of the square motor (84B x 84S)

I think your dyno was quite optimistic.

[digger]

M52 is a seriously underrated motor from the factory. Mine was essentially a stock BMW motor. OEM cams (S52 variety) and an OBD1 intake and it was making nearly 100bhp/liter. (Mine dyno'd 225whp, so ~265bhp)

Add 20 whp to that, and possibly some real cams and you can call it 250+whp out of 2.8L... Id say thats pretty damn amazing, and I loved the power delivery of the square motor (84B x 84S)

Have you seen 20whp from an m52 from the itb over the obd1 manifold ? I've never seen a proper apples to apples comparison

I tend to agree if you want 250whp it wouldn't be that difficult with some of the aggressive cams on offer. It would be quite fun especially with alloy block

[Bearmw]

Which is why a well cofigured M30 (at least 10:1 c.r preferred.) is still a valid candidate. High revs aren't required to have fun.

[nando]

Because you would need a lot more revs to get that power out of a smaller engine. S52s hardly do that and they have .4l more displacement. You're basically talking about matching a stock S54 with a smaller motor and an inferior head..

[2mAn]

yeah, I don't think you're going to get 250whp out of 2.8l - but 225whp isn't bad at all. :)

Why not?...The 225whp is a stock motor with stock cams. I think the S52 is a 246 duration or something. The ITBs clearly are helping out on the top end, and if paired with a proper set of Cams with a ~270 duration I could see a 10% bump in power... granted it will cost like $4k to get that, but still we're talking NA power which is never cheap.

and for the record, the 225whp was plenty in my car, but mine was also a bit lighter than most E30s. It weighed 2450 fully dressed and a little over 2300 in HPDE form. I am sure I couldve dropped more weight by fully gutting it, but it likely wouldve been replaced when going from roll bar to a full cage

edit: damn you guys... everytime I start to reminisce about my M52 I start looking at 97-98 Z3s haha

[nando]

yeah, I don't think you're going to get 250whp out of 2.8l - but 225whp isn't bad at all. :)

[2mAn]

So up to 20whp gain on an unmodified M52. Considering the cost of an aluminum M52... God that's a lot of money to spend for ~210bhp.

M52 is a seriously underrated motor from the factory. Mine was essentially a stock BMW motor. OEM cams (S52 variety) and an OBD1 intake and it was making nearly 100bhp/liter. (Mine dyno'd 225whp, so ~265bhp)

Add 20 whp to that, and possibly some real cams and you can call it 250+whp out of 2.8L... Id say thats pretty damn amazing, and I loved the power delivery of the square motor (84B x 84S)

[varg]

But you can put ITBs on an m52 as well. I can't even imagine how good that would sound.

http://racehead.com.au/products-page...50-52-itb-kit/

So up to 20whp gain on an unmodified M52. Considering the cost of an aluminum M52... God that's a lot of money to spend for ~210bhp.

[nando]

On a e90 it may not because it depends on boost plus e90s are heavier

The E90 335i is like 1,000lbs heavier than an E30. lol. And so many of them are auto/AWD, which is even worse.

agreed that more than 250-300whp in an E30 is pretty silly. I mean, there's Nisse Järnet's ix which embarrasses Veyrons and Gallardos, but usually it just means a car that can't really be driven to it's full potential.