Turning point for e30s?

[clarkson]

Here's my take having built an M20 2.8 and ran that in a coupe for years, then bought a stock auto touring 325i, and have just finished a 2.5 s14 swapped coupe, and now just got on the road a 4dr with an M50B25 swap (which I bought swapped with a busted oil pan).

I drove the M50 car for the first time this weekend, and first thing I thought, is I miss the M20. Also it had nothing on my S14. I think it is something about the older engines, the mechanical valve lash adjustment, the character.... Sure the M50 is smooth as silk compared to my S14 and my M20, but the older engines kinda go with the old smell in the interior.

I sold my 2.8 stroker M20 for a good price back in 2014, as the build was done right and suited the car. I plan on a M20 stroker for my touring compared to a swap. I don't think a nice stroker M20 will devalue the touring, anything it will sell for more. But if M5x swapped the car, maybe I lose some people who would be interested in something more original? A stroker is just like a rebuilt engine but with some added value...

[KIRIEIW]

Here's my take having built an M20 2.8 and ran that in a coupe for years, then bought a stock auto touring 325i, and have just finished a 2.5 s14 swapped coupe, and now just got on the road a 4dr with an M50B25 swap (which I bought swapped with a busted oil pan).

I drove the M50 car for the first time this weekend, and first thing I thought, is I miss the M20. Also it had nothing on my S14. I think it is something about the older engines, the mechanical valve lash adjustment, the character.... Sure the M50 is smooth as silk compared to my S14 and my M20, but the older engines kinda go with the old smell in the interior.

I sold my 2.8 stroker M20 for a good price back in 2014, as the build was done right and suited the car. I plan on a M20 stroker for my touring compared to a swap. I don't think a nice stroker M20 will devalue the touring, anything it will sell for more. But if M5x swapped the car, maybe I lose some people who would be interested in something more original? A stroker is just like a rebuilt engine but with some added value...

I’m just glad to see the pan worked out for ya :D


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[clarkson]

I’m just glad to see the pan worked out for ya :D


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Sure did, thanks! Btw working on m50 swapped cars... I agree they can be a pita. Doing the oil pan on this one, with the original M20 g260 gearbox. Guess what. No holes in the bellhousing to remove the rear 2 10mm bolts for the oil pan. Scratched my head for a while and then got my my biggest drill bit.... 2 new holes in the bellhousing for oil pan r&r.

[Julien]

Here's my take having built an M20 2.8 and ran that in a coupe for years, then bought a stock auto touring 325i, and have just finished a 2.5 s14 swapped coupe, and now just got on the road a 4dr with an M50B25 swap (which I bought swapped with a busted oil pan).

I drove the M50 car for the first time this weekend, and first thing I thought, is I miss the M20. Also it had nothing on my S14. I think it is something about the older engines, the mechanical valve lash adjustment, the character.... Sure the M50 is smooth as silk compared to my S14 and my M20, but the older engines kinda go with the old smell in the interior.

I sold my 2.8 stroker M20 for a good price back in 2014, as the build was done right and suited the car. I plan on a M20 stroker for my touring compared to a swap. I don't think a nice stroker M20 will devalue the touring, anything it will sell for more. But if M5x swapped the car, maybe I lose some people who would be interested in something more original?A stroker is just like a rebuilt engine but with some added value...

I would say it’s fine as long as the stroker doesn’t require some weird fmu or standalone to run properly and isn’t too dramatic (ie weird idle etc) to daily.

[reelizmpro]

As far as engine swaps and mods go, it just depends. The S52 M3 I bought is setup to be a track car with delrin mounts, solid mounted shifter, straight pipe 3" exhaust, etc. It vibrates so much and is so loud that I honestly cringe when I drive it but these things are to be expected when taking on someone else's build. There will be things you'd want to change but the S52 engine itself is a great all round engine in the E30. I had my 323i S52 swapped as well and although I paid someone to do it for me, I see what it takes to get done properly. I got a used 944 booster that appears to be stuck in boost mode causing the brakes to drag and lock up so I have to deal with that. I am switching to an E90 booster setup and all that it entails now. Then I still have to do the rear subframe bushings, new axles and swap the small case S3.46 for medium S3.15, etc. etc. It's all the little things that need to be done that add up so I can appreciate buying a clean swap car (like my turn key S52 M3) as long as the price is right.

[clarkson]

I would say it’s fine as long as the stroker doesn’t require some weird fmu or standalone to run properly and isn’t too dramatic (ie weird idle etc) to daily.

Yes I agree. For shits and giggles when I first built my M20 2.8 I ran it on the original AFM and a chip from someone off e30zone. I had a wideband hooked up and the engine felt OEM smooth, with like a 20-30% increase in power and torque. It was great to turn the AC on and not feel a huge drain on the engine.
I did then fit a Miller war chip and maf, and it was still very smooth and friendly. The guy who bought it loves it and it has been ultra reliable for him for the last 5 years. It had a 276 cam, headers, bbtb and a jb racing flywheel. I would build that engine again for sure. It's a lot of effort, for little gain (compared to turbo or swap) but I believe people value a nicely rebuilt and tweaked stock engine.

[clarkson]

I guess you are interviewing the seller as much as inspecting the car when you go look. I like to hear their story, and what they tell me really affects how much I think the car is worth.

Buying off a qualified BMW technician... Now that's the seller you want ;)

[nando]

I would say it’s fine as long as the stroker doesn’t require some weird fmu or standalone to run properly and isn’t too dramatic (ie weird idle etc) to daily.

Most built M20s really benefit from standalone though. Fortunately, there are many PnP options that work really well, you would never know they weren't stock except the obvious things like having ITBs.

[JimmyP]

Getting the AFM off that era of cars is huge.
The AFM is soooo inefficient and that era of Motec, so simple.

The single modification of deleting the AFM literally transforms an S14.
I can only imagine the same can be said / done with an M20 or an M30.
Get the AFM off, go stand alone.

[Julien]

Getting the AFM off that era of cars is huge.
The AFM is soooo inefficient and that era of Motec, so simple.

The single modification of deleting the AFM literally transforms an S14.
I can only imagine the same can be said / done with an M20 or an M30.
Get the AFM off, go stand alone.

Most built M20s really benefit from standalone though. Fortunately, there are many PnP options that work really well, you would never know they weren't stock except the obvious things like having ITBs.

Yes I agree. For shits and giggles when I first built my M20 2.8 I ran it on the original AFM and a chip from someone off e30zone. I had a wideband hooked up and the engine felt OEM smooth, with like a 20-30% increase in power and torque. It was great to turn the AC on and not feel a huge drain on the engine.
I did then fit a Miller war chip and maf, and it was still very smooth and friendly. The guy who bought it loves it and it has been ultra reliable for him for the last 5 years. It had a 276 cam, headers, bbtb and a jb racing flywheel. I would build that engine again for sure. It's a lot of effort, for little gain (compared to turbo or swap) but I believe people value a nicely rebuilt and tweaked stock engine.

Agreed that standalone is way better than the factory motronic for performance reasons but... the average dude (ie not on r3v) that is willing to drop 10k on a clean 325is would probably buy a stock dme car vs a standalone car.

[clarkson]

The old AFM.... I agree they are shit. But they did work back in the day. I recently finally found an issue with my touring, it would intermittently run rich at idle. Found the AFM door was sticking open! Now I have wd40'd it and it's going well.

I think for the buyer looking for originality the AFM is part of that. Some people, no matter how much you try to convince them otherwise, just wants the car how it left the factory.

[digger]

Plug and play stAnalone, keep dizzy no one would know difference. Just fit a gutted m30 AFM. You won't get the the full gains with the AFM even if gutted but will be a lot nicer to drive if tuned properly