New supra

[laidback93]

The B58 doesn't look as bad as I thought it might in the teardown - the plastic oil filter housing will no doubt leak at some point and be expensive to replace, but the timing chain looks good at the back of the engine and shouldn't have too many issues as it's a simple setup, not much different from the tensioner and guides setup on my M30, which has ticked over 400,000km without issues. The N47 timing chain is a lot more complicated and less beefy looking (and obviously BMW had issues with it). It'll end up a better engine than the 2JZ for sure - Toyota fanbois are worse than BMW owners for overblowing the reliability factor of their engines. Especially when it comes to ridiculous 800hp or 900hp on stock bottom end claims - they last one 400m run and hop on the flat bed when they finish coasting :)

I just watched that video as well and was pleasantly surprised. As a B58 owner I was scared about owning my 340i past the warranty period with the timing chain being at back of the engine. The B58, and mine is a first gen, is such a great engine. It reminds me of the M20 in my e30 with a similar sound and smooth power delivery all the way through. The Supra ended up with a great engine. I can’t wait to see what BMW does with the S58.

[lukeADE335i]

Just some observations from my point of view.

There's a neat teardown of the B58 on youtube now and it seems to be a beefy engine, I know the B58 itself is kind of old news to BMW guys but it's news to me, and it's the first good teardown of the engine I've seen anywhere. Seems like modern engine progress is continuing to make engines worse and worse for long term ownership or enthusiast use. Stuff like putting the timing chain at the back of the engine and a huge plastic chunk of a oil filter housing and cooler hanging off the block, just make life more difficult for the enthusiast down the road. I am fully aware and understand that the timing chain and its rails are lifetime parts from a manufacturer's point of view, but my observation is just that stuff like this is going to make the engine less attractive long term. In light of this stuff Toyota fanboys have reason to continue to fanboy the heavy lump that is the 2JZ and trash the B58, but I don't doubt that barring some major flaw the new Supra will prove to be vastly superior in every way to the much hyped MKIV.

The B58 doesn't look as bad as I thought it might in the teardown - the plastic oil filter housing will no doubt leak at some point and be expensive to replace, but the timing chain looks good at the back of the engine and shouldn't have too many issues as it's a simple setup, not much different from the tensioner and guides setup on my M30, which has ticked over 400,000km without issues. The N47 timing chain is a lot more complicated and less beefy looking (and obviously BMW had issues with it).

It'll end up a better engine than the 2JZ for sure - Toyota fanbois are worse than BMW owners for overblowing the reliability factor of their engines. Especially when it comes to ridiculous 800hp or 900hp on stock bottom end claims - they last one 400m run and hop on the flat bed when they finish coasting :)

[Kershaw]

Very true on mag racing, but I think you undervalued the e36 M3 or really over valued the RX8 which is slow as hell.

Rx8 new on a good day did 0-60 in 6.6 and the quarter in 15.2 it’s only 100-150 pds lighter then the M3 depending on spec.

Even the crappiest M3 the s50 from 95 did it in 5.5 and 14.2 that’s quite a bit of difference, and if you were not mag racing it’s way easier to get those numbers on a street or track due to the really big Tq advantage of the M3.

I don’t want either but the RX8 was anemic and used a quart of oil every time you started it.

They were pretty though. Loved the interiors.

I've personally run 14.48 in a bone stock rx8 and 14.3s with an off the shelf tune, mid pipe, and catback. Oil usage was a quart every 3k, I never added any. Just did oil changes. 15.2 is a missed shift, lol. On a quarter mile, the e36 m3 has a slight edge, still comes down to the driver to launch it properly. On a track? Nah, the e36 m3 is toast. E36 m3 makes a better DD because vanos and torque, but the rx8 is a far superior sports car for many reasons. Just shift feel alone would be enough to make a decision. The shifter was a like a bolt action rifle, truly a joy to use. Even the best freshly rebuilt e30/e36/e46/e39 shifter pales in comparison. The E46 m3 eats an rx8 for breakfast, of course, but they still dominate new cars today.

I drove a 2013 Corolla across the country a few years ago when my friend was moving out there. They suck.

[uturn]

Just saw that papa dookie tear down this morning. Everything is so modular it makes it look like playing with legos.

[roguetoaster]

Werd, new cars are good, but also suck.

[varg]

Now that they're out and around, and getting favorable reviews, I figure this thread is worth bumping. Just some observations from my point of view.

The good:
-dyno testing has found it makes over 335whp+ from the factory, this is a good improvement over the 335bhp and 3,400lb car costing $50,000 which I was having a chuckle over
-it sounds pretty decent
-there seems to be plenty of praise for its driving dynamics

The bad:
-saw one at cars and coffee and it looks worse in person than in pictures
-despite making more power than it advertised it's significantly slower than a Mustang GT

There's a neat teardown of the B58 on youtube now and it seems to be a beefy engine, I know the B58 itself is kind of old news to BMW guys but it's news to me, and it's the first good teardown of the engine I've seen anywhere. Seems like modern engine progress is continuing to make engines worse and worse for long term ownership or enthusiast use. Stuff like putting the timing chain at the back of the engine and a huge plastic chunk of a oil filter housing and cooler hanging off the block, just make life more difficult for the enthusiast down the road. I am fully aware and understand that the timing chain and its rails are lifetime parts from a manufacturer's point of view, but my observation is just that stuff like this is going to make the engine less attractive long term. In light of this stuff Toyota fanboys have reason to continue to fanboy the heavy lump that is the 2JZ and trash the B58, but I don't doubt that barring some major flaw the new Supra will prove to be vastly superior in every way to the much hyped MKIV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MckxlP60cnY&

[jeenyus]

That's pretty cool. I'm assuming it allows for an N55 swap too?

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[King Mufasa]

50 more HP when it's new; by 50k miles that drops a bit.. plus, zero torque. Meh. Not a fan, never will be.

The engine is actually pretty bullet solid and stronger than the N55. Cylinder are made to last way longer with their plasma transferred wire arc tech that the GT350 Shelby is using on their flat crankshaft v8s


They said the 4cylinder is manual and is made in a way that allows for 2JZ-GTE swaps for the Supra fans to do.

[Staszek]

Eh, we're just bench racing here and I haven't seen an A/B comparison of the two on the track but the US E36 M3 is so anemic that it barely has an acceleration advantage over an RX8 based on the numbers I've seen. I doubt the M3 would out-corner one, that is what they're known for after all; being great in the corners.

Very true on mag racing, but I think you undervalued the e36 M3 or really over valued the RX8 which is slow as hell.

Rx8 new on a good day did 0-60 in 6.6 and the quarter in 15.2 it’s only 100-150 pds lighter then the M3 depending on spec.

Even the crappiest M3 the s50 from 95 did it in 5.5 and 14.2 that’s quite a bit of difference, and if you were not mag racing it’s way easier to get those numbers on a street or track due to the really big Tq advantage of the M3.

I don’t want either but the RX8 was anemic and used a quart of oil every time you started it.

They were pretty though. Loved the interiors.

[varg]

Eh, we're just bench racing here and I haven't seen an A/B comparison of the two on the track but the US E36 M3 is so anemic that it barely has an acceleration advantage over an RX8 based on the numbers I've seen. I doubt the M3 would out-corner one, that is what they're known for after all; being great in the corners.

[Staszek]

Maybe faster than a the already slow US E36 M3, since the lightness and cornering would be enough to leave the E36 unable to keep up with its small power:weight advantage but there's no way an RX8 would even come close to keeping up with any variant of M3 E46 or later, stock for stock. It would be beat in grip and slaughtered in power to weight. Like the Nu-86, the RX8 seems to be a great chassis let down by a mediocre engine.

Its not faster then the slow E36, I also think that he was comparing it to an E30M3 which it is faster then.

I agree with you great car let down by the engine.

[mrsleeve]

In the most simplistic terms, it *is* a Z4 just with a different body.

this

very Mehh on it, yeah 2 tarbo I6 is good for supra heritage, But to me it looks like what used to be refereed to as Ricer version of a New Z4. Like what would happen if the Fast and Furious crowd got a hold of a Z4 for some "NOPI" show someplace in Kansas.....

[varg]

Maybe faster than a the already slow US E36 M3, since the lightness and cornering would be enough to leave the E36 unable to keep up with its small power:weight advantage but there's no way an RX8 would even come close to keeping up with any variant of M3 E46 or later, stock for stock. It would be beat in grip and slaughtered in power to weight. Like the Nu-86, the RX8 seems to be a great chassis let down by a mediocre engine.

[nando]

50 more HP when it's new; by 50k miles that drops a bit.. plus, zero torque. Meh. Not a fan, never will be.

[Kershaw]

I'll never forget my first (and only) hpde in my tired eta, during one lap I was being closely followed by a 'touge' prepped rx8. By that point I was used to pointing people by and getting my doors blown off without having to let off the gas. So as we get to the straight I give him the point, but he's not passing me... My instructor yells at me "Don't you dare let up!" LOL, so I didn't lift and I was pretty much even with this rx8 until the end and I let him pass. At the end of the session he's telling me that his engine is using a quart of oil every session, meanwhile my 220k mile eta hasn't used a drop all weekend.

That was definitely on the driver. I owned an rx8 in my early 20s and I went to HPDEs. I was passing CTS-Vs, G35s, and 350zs my first time out. It is a quick car. Not fast by any means, but it's definitely faster than any normal e30, stock for stock. Probably faster than most m3s too, barring special models. The rx8 handles exceedingly well, weighs about the same as an e30, better gearing, better suspension, better brakes, better tires, and about 50 more hp (220 is realistic, 238 they rated them at is very optimistic.)

Anyway, on to the Supra. I'd rather have a z4 coupe.