Damn Porsche Owners... *rant*

[euroshark]

Ok, this is directed at some Porsche owners, but certainly not all of them. I know a few guys here have Porsches, and probably are not part of the group that I am talking about.

Why the hell is it so hard to understand that SOME people are capable of doing things themselves rather than spending money at a shop or a dealership?? Opening the hood does not automatically mean that you will have to take out a second mortgage on the house, or sell your girlfriend overseas as a mail order bride...

I have been toying with the idea of finding a cheap 944 to play with, and obviously the idea of turbocharging comes after that because, come on, what am I gonna do with a 154hp 2.5 I-4?? So I ask what it should take to make an NA 2.5 work with factory turbo parts, and the responses I got were so incredibly ridiculous!!

One guy actually stated that although the motors are similar, it will require more money to turbo the 2.5 than it would to buy a whole 951! Talking about cutting and modifying the front clip to fit the crappy stock intercooler and whatnot. GOOD LORD! Ever heard of customization? Maybe I could use a different intercooler, or build my own downpipes and charge pipes... Maybe run a megasquirt instead of tracking down $700 worth of antique Porsche electronics just so my turbo can run 12psi???

I know for a fact that one can build a $2000 turbo M30 if they have the ability to do some work by themselves and improvise a little bit! And it will make good power, damn good power!!

Apparently when you buy a Porsche, your ego gets big, your penis gets shriveled, and your wrists go limp!! Sissies... I'm a DIYer and that sort of thing pisses me off to no end.

/rant

[Mot]

ya thats shitty.:curse: I like your build idea.

Im still toying with the thought of a 914 race car, I like the idea of mid engine super light 6cyl porsche fun :)

[Mastrcruse]

since we are talking about porsches. What kind of porsche is Vlad's?

[KenC]

RS Replica

[nefarious7907]

930/RS, and the differences dont stop at the engine in the 951 as you well know and having driven both ~6/10 there is a striking difference. I would hold off on getting a 944 and look for a nice 951, I know around here I could pick up a 944 for 2k easy in okay shape. And yes adding all of the bits to turbo it wouldnt cost half of a nice 951 but it I know it wouldnt have the same composure, and it would lack completeness/overall package of a 951. But you need to drive both cars. It really is like comparing apples to oranges.

[RCWells]

Depending on what base you started with as to cost effectiveness. IF you just want a build project, then go for it, but nice (and yes, that's a relative term) 951 examples can be found for reasonable (again, relative)money. I was looking at buying a 944S2 just before I bought my current e30, and guy was wanting around $10K for it. 65K miles or so on it at the time, but it needed a water pump/timing belt. I decided to stay away from the Porsches b/c they are very difficult to work on from what I understand, and at the time, I was still knee deep in my Nursing studies. That said, a 911 may still be in my future.

Good luck with it, and if you DO get one, keep us updated on your project.

[ddavidv]

What message board are you on? I think the one on Pelican Parts is by far the best Porsche board out there, but then I hung out on the 911 portion.

There are essentially 2 types of Porsche owners: the gold chain, wax-n-polish egomaniacs, and the track whore, drive it like you stole it crowd. The latter is a little harder to find, but they are out there.

Also several 944 guys on the [I]Grassroots Motorsports[I] message board.

[Charlie]

Ok, this is directed at some Porsche owners, but certainly not all of them. I know a few guys here have Porsches, and probably are not part of the group that I am talking about.

Why the hell is it so hard to understand that SOME people are capable of doing things themselves rather than spending money at a shop or a dealership?? Opening the hood does not automatically mean that you will have to take out a second mortgage on the house, or sell your girlfriend overseas as a mail order bride...

I have been toying with the idea of finding a cheap 944 to play with, and obviously the idea of turbocharging comes after that because, come on, what am I gonna do with a 154hp 2.5 I-4?? So I ask what it should take to make an NA 2.5 work with factory turbo parts, and the responses I got were so incredibly ridiculous!!

One guy actually stated that although the motors are similar, it will require more money to turbo the 2.5 than it would to buy a whole 951! Talking about cutting and modifying the front clip to fit the crappy stock intercooler and whatnot. GOOD LORD! Ever heard of customization? Maybe I could use a different intercooler, or build my own downpipes and charge pipes... Maybe run a megasquirt instead of tracking down $700 worth of antique Porsche electronics just so my turbo can run 12psi???

I know for a fact that one can build a $2000 turbo M30 if they have the ability to do some work by themselves and improvise a little bit! And it will make good power, damn good power!!

Apparently when you buy a Porsche, your ego gets big, your penis gets shriveled, and your wrists go limp!! Sissies... I'm a DIYer and that sort of thing pisses me off to no end.

/rant

Cheap 944...


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Wait, hold on.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA.

Okay, I'm good, I..oh shit, nope..

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.

Okay, so where to start? You're looking at base model cheap, NA 944s. You might as well buy a 325e, they're that shitty. There isn't a strong "OEM" aftermarket for 944 parts and wear items, so you're going to be buying a lot of Porsche stuff. You'll probably spend more than the purchase price of the car just redoing the clutch.

Second, you want to take an NA 944, and build a homebrew 951, when 951s don't go for much more of a premium than 944s. To get all of the required parts, you are going to be spending a lot more than the premium for a 951. In the end you'll have a less desireable car with a bunch of hacked together parts and megashit with a lot more money and time sunk into it than if you had started with the much better 951 platform.

The Porsche guys have every right to laugh at you.

-Charlie

[BeirBrennerE30]

Charlie is right.... just get the damn 951. you WILL spend more than a 951 turboing a 944 even if your McGyver.

If yoru thinking of turning a 944 into a 951 to save a few bucks you probably shouldnt be looking at either.

P.S. Megasquirt sucks!

[PiercedE30]

Why does MegaSquirt suck? Because it is cheap? Hell, with the current software/firmware it is more than capable of hanging with some of the best ecus. I mean shit, it controls fuel, it controls spark. I mean honestly, what more does it need to not be in the sucky category that you speak of. Honestly, if you have never done any work with ecu's, SHUT THE FUCK UP!

[euroshark]

So wait, starting with a cheaper base model and upgrading it with similar performance parts that you would also install on the 951 (shocks, springs, roll bars, bushings, etc...) somehow will make a lesser machine??

You can stick a stroked 6.0 32v in an early 928S and upgrade the suspension and have a car that will spank newer 928S4's... Or turbo a 3.2liter M30 powered E28 and spank modded E28 M5's all day.

I guess my logic is completely wrong then to assume that I could take a base model 944 2.5, upgrade the suspension to beyond 951 spec stuff, update the electronics far beyond the 951 equipment, and build a turbo system that works as good as the one on the 951?? I'm sure at least 40% of the people here have some experience with the insides of a motor... Is it hard to believe that one could tear down a 2.5 block and fit different pistons??

I totally agree that a base 944 can be directly compared to a 325e (or even i), and a 951 can be compared to an M3. But does that mean that the lesser model can not be modified to compete with the top model in performance? I don't think so. Look back on road tests from Alpina... The B6 2.8's were as fast or faster than the standard M3s, and granted, they had a fraction more noticeable understeer initially, but it was barely noticable according to every test I read.

The end result might not be a thoroughbred, but if it can run with one of the "real" ones, that would be fine with me! Something about building a car is more attractive than buying one that is already done, even if I spend the same amount of money in the end.

Edit - I'm not necessarily looking to save money, because obviously, in the end it will cost at least as much as a $7.5k 951. But starting with a $900 944 would have it's advantages over starting with a $7.5k 951, like being cheaper RIGHT NOW so that I can start working on it! I'm not about to go out and get a car loan, every car I have ever owned has been purchased with cash... '84 Saab 900, '87 900 16v Turbo, '87 Alfa Milano 2.5 (then 3.0), '91 Chevy 2500, '81 Euro 635CSi, '84 533i, and my '84 335i. I'm on a roll!!

[BimmerToad]

since we are talking about porsches. What kind of porsche is Vlad's?

'74 IROC replica

[Charlie]

A 900 dollar 944 is going to be a hole. Most Porsche guys consider the only worthwhile money pits to be 911s, a 944 is just a waste of time.

No one is talking about the suspension components, they're talking about the motors. You do not grasp how ridiculously stupid the prices are on Porsche driveline parts.

-Charlie

[trent]

I have been toying with the idea of finding a cheap 944 to play with, and obviously the idea of turbocharging comes after that because, come on, what am I gonna do with a 154hp 2.5 I-4?? So I ask what it should take to make an NA 2.5 work with factory turbo parts, and the responses I got were so incredibly ridiculous!!

One guy actually stated that although the motors are similar, it will require more money to turbo the 2.5 than it would to buy a whole 951! Talking about cutting and modifying the front clip to fit the crappy stock intercooler and whatnot. GOOD LORD! Ever heard of customization? Maybe I could use a different intercooler, or build my own downpipes and charge pipes... Maybe run a megasquirt instead of tracking down $700 worth of antique Porsche electronics just so my turbo can run 12psi???

I know for a fact that one can build a $2000 turbo M30 if they have the ability to do some work by themselves and improvise a little bit! And it will make good power, damn good power!!

Are you not born on planet Earth? Do you actually expect Porsche shops to be hacks and use megashit on your car? You expect them to cobbletogether some homebrew turbo kit so that the car hardly runs? Why would you expect a these guys to reinvent the wheel as cheap as possible when the car you are aspiring to has already been built? Please, get a grip. I wish these guys you talked to would come on this board and complain about "Damn Cheapass E30 Owners...*rant*"

PiercedE30, do you have experience with Megasquirt? Do you have any experience with REAL injections such as MoTeC? There is much more to standlone systems than "controls fuel, it controls spark"."

[nefarious7907]

kokeln and lindsey racing have a lot of performance parts but if you add up the prices its gets steep fast. Even if I wanted to be build a 9.5k 951 it would end up over 15k. same with building a 20k 911, that could turn into 30k fast. But changing the clutch and oil pan is a nightmare, and you arent going to get 75-200k miles on either.