Chinese Headers on eBay?

[TwoJ's]

If you want cheap power out of an M20, you'd get much more bang for the buck with a turbo system??

That's a bit contradictory. Better bang for the buck? Yes. Is a proper turbo setup "cheap? No way.

[moatilliatta]

Somebody needs to make a titanium exhaust set up to go along with these!

[z31maniac]

Somebody needs to make a titanium exhaust set up to go along with these!

Like any of the cheap bastards that frequent the E30 forums would part with the cash necessary to make a Ti exhaust!

[germancarsonly]

quote: If you want cheap power out of an M20, you'd get much more bang for the buck with a turbo system??

That is a good way for many people to go, but I have a 2.7i engine wasting space on an engine stand. Honestly, the long term plan for this car includes a turbo M30 sooner or later. The engine I have is strong as it is, but wouldn't be a great candidate for a turbo without changing the cam back to something milder than what it has. Once I have the suspension set up and working well I might add NOS to the car. I mostly am curious to just get a little experience playing with it. I'm not too worried about doing damage to the engine with it, but the cost of refilling the bottle doesn't excite me. Using NOS at the drag strip is a pretty common deal and something I kind of want to learn about. My previous drag racing experience goes back to when I was a teenager. I had a strip only car that I was winning $ with on a regular basis, but I wanted to try other things and sold it to buy a NASCAR Sportsman. Anyway, that was before people were using NOS and I missed out on it. Well, I guess there were a few people using it and just not talking about it in 1968.

When I swap engines later on the NOS won't be needed with the turbo M30. I should be able to get the car into the 10 second range with the turbo M30 and that's quick enough for me.

[Sean]

That's a bit contradictory. Better bang for the buck? Yes. Is a proper turbo setup "cheap? No way.

Compared to an NA M20 though, it's better money spent and you'll get much more return on power.

Makes sense why you're stickin with the NA motor if you have a turbo M30 in the works! :D

[E30 Cabrio]

Are headers smog legal in Kalifornia for E30's? And do they have a provision for 02 sensors?

[germancarsonly]

In California, if you go by the letter of the law then headers are a no - no. Or at least that is my understanding. But, the local smog tech guy knows that the car is going to read the same on the dyno with or without the headers and they don't care if the car has them. Ask before you have him run the test and if he's a prick that goes 100% by the book, flip him off and go to another shop. I haven't had any problems getting cars with headers passed in Cali since the tests started 30+ years ago.

Yes, these headers have the boss welded in them for the sensor.

[DaveSmed]

This shows your obvious mastery of engineering and internal combustion engine theory.

Good luck building your car.

What was wrong with that statement? The "probably"?

[nando]

What was wrong with that statement? The "probably"?

it depends if you think backpressure has anything to do with performance (other than hurting it)

backpressure = myth
exhaust gas velocity = power

it just happens that large pipes that reduce backpressure will also reduce exhaust velocity because the gasses expand into the pipe instead of out of the tube. But small pipes that increase backpressure and potentially velocity cause other problems (like increased likelyness of detonation and high EGTs). What you want is a balance that maximizes velocity while minimizing backpressure - that's why long tubes work and shorties don't.

[der affe]

I imagine so, the tubing is pretty thin so it should get louder. all headers will alter the exhaust note, the stock thick cast manifolds muffle a lot of sound.

if you get them, get them because they are cheap, decent looking and they will change your exhaust note - don't get them expecting a real increase in torque. the primaries are too short to make any difference there.

i have to beg to differ on this. i am sure that there will be some kind of a torque increase over "shorties" or stock manifolds. not a giant increase of 40 ft/lbs, but there will be some increase because of the longer than stock primaries. for an increase in torque and still maintaining some form of ground clearence on a lowered car. $160.00ish to your door isn't bad compaired to $500-$900 new that you will scrape holes in and or crush the tubing halfway closed.
i just ordered a set myself. i have msds shorties on the car now, no cat (with dual glasspacks as a resonator), and an aftermarket cat back.
the engine is a 2.7 stroker, ITB's, maf conv., P&P head, 310 (or 304 cam i can't remember which). when it gets here i am going to swap out the glasspacks for a single dual in dual out magna flow, but keep everything else the same. i'll do a before and after butt dyno and G-tech (about as accurate as the butt dyno) and report the results

[Massive Lee]

I have bought a set of these for a 3.0 M54 on our racecar. Cost was 25% of nearest competitor. Who cares if it cracks after two years. We'll buy another one and still will come ahead. Until now, the fit was great and the price was superb. Chinese parts don't always mean lower quality. But for sure they mean lost jobs on our continent...



Not me on the picture.

[cferb]

I'm pretty sure those are the same crap Budget Beater was selling.

Let me tell you about them. I'll start from the beginning. They look pretty, seem fairly well made as far as longevity is concerned. I tried to install them, took me a week, the runners don't line up correctly, it's is very difficult to get them in place, when I finally did, one is crooked and doesn't mount flush. I put 3 of the gaskets that came with them on and minimized the leak, That's ok, it'll settle in, right? To this day, a year later, it leaks a little on cold start, when it warms up it seals.

Onto the next thing, not a big deal if you know before buying, I didn't, they do NOT fit the stock cat, you would have to do some serious welding to fit it.

Lastly, and I still have this problem, the slip over section does not seal up no matter what you do, the piece on them is just junk, and needs to be welded together, or a new piece welded on.

When all is said and done, you would save money, and a lot of time and effort, to just buy some headers that fit in the first place.

/rant

I felt a difference in power, but as I said, I swapped out the cat as well, so now I have a full exhaust

[e34john]

In California, if you go by the letter of the law then headers are a no - no. Or at least that is my understanding. But, the local smog tech guy knows that the car is going to read the same on the dyno with or without the headers and they don't care if the car has them. Ask before you have him run the test and if he's a prick that goes 100% by the book, flip him off and go to another shop. I haven't had any problems getting cars with headers passed in Cali since the tests started 30+ years ago.

Yes, these headers have the boss welded in them for the sensor.

Finding someone who doesn't care is the best bet, and its usually not too hard if you have a 10 dollar bill. We used to go to this guy, also all the ricer guys too, used to go to this guy who didn't care what we had on the car. Sometimes I think he would let some people run un modified cars instead of the riced out delsol but he is gone now. So my new guy is some old guy that says dem bee em dubyas are demz kompleecated automobills. I bet I can tell him the germans put those on the car at the factory.

[germancarsonly]

I should be receiving the headers within a couple of days. I'll let everyone know what I think as this might be a good deal. I'll put the car on a dyno later this Summer, but as I'm not interested in the before and after stuff I won't take the time to do that.

As for the going price in 2008 for a fake California Smog Cert. - I "understand" it's $300 + the price of the Cert. Hey, maybe it's only $10 and I just don't know the right guys though......

[ethree]

As for the going price in 2008 for a fake California Smog Cert. - I "understand" it's $300 + the price of the Cert. Hey, maybe it's only $10 and I just don't know the right guys though......

There are plenty of people around here who basically don't care about visual as long as the vehicle can pass the sniffer you should be fine.