couple questions, bad handbrake, and want to fix understeer on snow!

[ihavefingers]

Wrong.... i like to drift my car tooo... but you have to think if it was the fastest way around the corner why does nascar not just drift the whole track... spinning your tires(losing traction) does not make you go faster.

i forget exactly what its called maybe drift angle or something? im not sure anyway, whatever the drift angle is , its the angle your car is at before it actually in a slide. depending on the tires, there is a threshold where they go from traction to loosing traction. meaning it doesnt go from full traction to no traction instantly. there is a point where it kinda plateau's and keeps full traction before it starts to drop.

sooooo, when you are at this "drift angle" its pretty much at the limit before your tires are actually loosing traction, but your car is sliding at a slight angle, so you are accelerating forward, slightly in the direction of the corner, while you still have full traction. usually on treaded tires there is a bigger area between traction and loosing traction, while on slicks, its much smaller, so you have traction, a tiny area between, then no traction. this is why formula 1 cars, nascar, and other road race cars dont slide at all, because there is basically no "plateau" as i described above. you have traction then you go past that at all and you have none.

this is why rally cars drift. the less traction you have the bigger this drift angle is because there is a much much bigger area before you are loosing traction, and the bigger angle you are at while in this "plateau" the more you are accelerating forward in the direction of the corner, thus you go through it faster. :D

this isnt me just making crap up this is 20+ instructors with a shit ton of racing experience, trained to train racing drivers telling me this. and common knowledge for any racing driver with basic experience.

[Axxe]

it was a mild sarcasm with a little jizz

Sorry, I'm normally the pitcher.

[ihavefingers]

Sorry to discredit your racing "experience" but playstation doesn't count.

The minute you slide around your corner the tires friction changes from static to dynamic (basic physics stuff), meaning you lose quite a bit of cornering ability as the coefficient of friction between your tires and the road is much less (therefore you achieve less "acceleration"). I know this isn't just physics bullshit and actually applies to the real world because i have real racing experience.

Secondly the reason why rally drivers drift is because all of the track is dictated as they go along, it is not because its faster, it is because they have less time to react to changes in the track.

Your next argument is that a turn is like acceleration. All I have to say is that you don't notice that when you spin your wheels on launches you accelerate alot slower than if you find the point where your tires bark a tiny bit but don't spin? Far as i know every race driver knows that maintaining grip around a corner will get you around it is faster.

Drifting is for fun and looks, don't try to pass it off as a wise racing decision otherwise it would be all over formula 1.

Bottom line? The minute your tires break traction, you are losing time. That is all.

and to all the other members who don't know who i am, I'm a lurker that gets really pissed off when people pretend to know what they're talking about.

uhhhh nope.

read my post above,

and when you say you accelerate slower when you are spinning the tires, correct. thats when you have gone past the threshold, and you have lost most traction, but that bark you hear, is what im talking about, its when you are at the limit of the tires threshold. its a bit different with cornering, but my other post explains it.

[Danny]

Driiiiiiiiiiiiiiifiiiiiiiiiiiiiitoooooooooooooooo!

Just clutch kick the hell out of it.

You'll break it loose ;)

[euroshark]

He's actually making a lot of sense in that post with the slip angle talk and whatnot.

[bolognablake]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_flick

Do eet.

[ihavefingers]

all those track days and you don't know anything about weight transfer? really?

no offence, seriously im not trying to be mean. but you drive a slowish awd car thats perfectly set up in auto-x. you dont need to know much at all to drive that well. im not saying your a bad driver im sure your extremely good, but drive a somewhat fast rwd car around corners at 100+ and you will really know weight transfer. a stock ix in snowy/icy conditions understeering a bit, doesnt have a ton to do with weight transfer. weight transfer is a big part of it. but there are so many other factors, especially the cars setup.

like i said, i wasnt always understeering, i could get it to oversteer easily, but it would take the totally wrong cornering methods. id have to go very slow in then floor it to get the tail out. when you should be able to go somewhat fast in, pitch the car, and get it sliding before or at the turn in.

i tried for a very long time trying to do it faster and pitch it, brake too hard and it would understeer, dont brake hard enough and the front wouldnt get enough weight and understeer. and after like 1 hour of driving the same 2 corners i couldnt get it right. when i can get it right first try in my audi/subaru, and cant get it right after 1 hour of trying it in every way i could, and i still couldnt get it, that has alot to do with setup. then again, it was about 3 inches on top of really icy stuff. maybe i just have to wait for better snow. still it could be that im not driving it correctly.

[ihavefingers]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_flick

Do eet.

yeah i tried that, believe me! but still only worked going way too slow or when it was a mix of snow/dirt, it worked perfectly then cause i had alot more traction. maybe i just really have to go slow as hell in all the time. or just wait for less icy, deeper snow.

[nando]

what are you a fan or something?

sounds like what you should really do is sell your car and buy a subaru. :p

[Axxe]

You want to be sliding before the turn in? This is the fastest way around a track?

[ihavefingers]

what are you a fan or something?

sounds like what you should really do is sell your car and buy a subaru. :p

ix is more original! im trying to save up to get a good rally prepped pgt car which will most likely be a subaru. thats why i sold my s4 for like 16 and bought this car for 4.

but still a bmw kicking ass in the snow is much cooler than a subaru. plus id take a bmw on the road any day.

[ihavefingers]

You want to be sliding before the turn in? This is the fastest way around a track?

not a track, atleast i dont think, but around certain turns in snow or dirt. so by the time you hit the turn in point of the turn you are already at this slip angle turning as sharp as possible and maintain it through the entire turn.
where if you wait to turn in before you get it sideways, you are around the apex by the time you are at the slip angle and turning to your fullest potential.

so yeah usually you want to be starting the drift before the turn in point.

[Rennsport]

So your trying to save money to buy a scoobie-roo by selling your s4, and buying a different car?

that's 4k that you could of put towards the subaru....


the only reason i would sell an s4 to buy a 325ix is if the s4 was trashed

[ihavefingers]

So your trying to save money to buy a scoobie-roo by selling your s4, and buying a different car?

that's 4k that you could of put towards the subaru....


the only reason i would sell an s4 to buy a 325ix is if the s4 was trashed

the s4 cost me more than the car was worth in maintenance. over the 2 years i had it. and really i have more fun in my stock ix than i ever had in my stg 2 330+hp s4. the s4 was focused on the wrong type of performance, straight line. while the ix is just about perfectly balanced. i actually like having it be sorta slow, it forces you to pay attention and drive well, it actually takes effort to go fast, where with the s4 you floor it in any gear for a couple seconds and your up to highway speed. on the twisty mountain roads around here, you have to corner smooth, get on the gas at the right time, and shift at the right rpm's to keep your speed up. its much more fun and much more of a pure car.

the subaru is gonna be a fully rally prepped car. not a daily driver, it may be street legal, which will be fun. but its not the type of car you drive every day.

[Yakinho]

Save up and buy some better bullshit, cause you obviously don't know shit. Do you really think Formula 1 cars and other race groups don't slide and lose traction? They're just a lot better at controlling a car then most people, especially an "experienced racer" like you. Please go away, you're not educating anyone with your copious amounts of racing experience.