newer BMW's suck

[gearheadE30]

I wouldn't mind driving a TSX; they are a blast. They really don't have a whole lot of power, though. Maybe a TL type s or something, with the 286 hp V6.

I drive new BMWs all the time and they are good cars, just not what I expect from a company like BMW. E46 ZHPs were great cars; probably my favorite newish BMW.

[iwillhunt]

I haven't read any of this thread yet, but i agree wholeheartedly with the title. '80s and older BMWs were over engineered to the nth degree, the new ones break left and right.

[Brinkley]

I would really love to come in and bash this thread as I have an e46. But honestly the e30 has a better build quality. I do enjoy my e46 very much but yes I have spent many a day cursing it and running around town finding parts i need to fix it.
My fav is the central locking system with an attitude ( my date showed up in a new infiniti and my car refused to let her in ). I can't roll down my windows w/o a slight nervousness (is this the end of my regulator...again??) Still I love my vanos and I think the e46 handles great despite the extra weight.
Of course the flip side is BMW makes money on performing maintenance to these cars. Also my own automotive skill set has dramatically increased from owning the e46. lol. Bit of a shock going from 98 camry to 99 328.

[Julien]

hey man, who rebuilt that vanos for you?



;-)

[brgracer]

Just throwing in my 2 cents here on the TSX as I own two of them as DDs for wife and I. You'd think I'd love them since I own two, but honestly, not really an enthusiast car (that's what the E30 and miata are for). Granted it's on the sportier side, but still FWD and no torque like almost every Honda. We bought it because it fit the bill for a DD: reliable as hell (over 100k combining both cars and nothing but tires/brakes/oil changes needed so far), 4 doors for the two rugrats in the back, comfortable, good gas milage (we both have 20+ mile commutes one way and I get almost 30mpg). But, lets just say any day I'm not doing dropoff/pickup of the kids, I take the sportier cars whenever I can.

[bimmer_E30]

i am gonna bump this thread.

bmw did a very good job with old bmws...

my lower radiator hose on my e30 used to get cut in a half every 3 months or so because my old e30 had a bent raddi support and shot motor mounts , when the lower radiator hose gets cut into half my e30 leaks the coolant and never overheat .. i mean it didn't even pass the half with no coolant in the system ( i was on the highway that time) . so yah older bmws FTW.

[gearheadE30]

^^well, that's hardly within the expected product use of the car, so I don't think that's a great way to compare. No car is expected to run for long without a cooling system.

[bimmer_E30]

thats why i blew the engine on my subaru lol.

[Kilomph]

I'd personally get an E34 525i (M50) and swap in an S50/52. Very comfortable, solid cars, and with the added power I'm sure would be quick enough for her.

[Dave]

I'd personally get an E34 525i (M50) and swap in an S50/52. Very comfortable, solid cars, and with the added power I'm sure would be quick enough for her.

Solid - except for the headliners that sag, and the door panels that delaminate, and the plastic radiators, and the crap transmissions, and the front suspension parts that last 2-3 years tops, and . . .

[m3_eater]

+1. I have had a number of 3-Series (except 06+), and newer is NOT better. The absolute worst was a 1998 E36 328is. Looked like a cream puff, but damn if everything under the sun didn't need touching on that car at one point or another. I found the E46 to be better though (but still not approaching the build quality of the E30).

The worst offender however was a 2002 Mercedes-Benz C32 AMG. The repairs were frequent and always expensive enough to feel like passing a kidney stone when you signed the receipt. MB also had an absolutely ridiculous service methodology. Here's a good example: The transmission began to slip a bit at part throttle one day, so I immediately took it in. The dealer takes a day (no loaner car) and calls me. The exchange went something like this:

Dealer: "The transmission coolant lines share a radiator with the engine coolant. One of the lines developed a hole inside of the radiator, and glycol got into the transmission, causing it to slip."

Me: "Ok, sounds like I need a new radiator, possibly new coolant lines, new coolant and a trans flush/refill too."

Dealer: "Sorry, but no. The test we ran showed too high of a ratio/PPM of glycol in the trans fluid. Our book says you need a new radiator, new transmission, new transmission ECU, and all fluids. Your total will be $6150. However, this comes with a 2 year/24K mile warranty on the transmission!"

Me: "Give me my car back."

I spent less than $600 total for a new radiator, fresh MB coolant & trans fluid and all labor elsewhere, and NEVER had another problem with that transmission again, despite modding the car to the tune of 425HP/420TQ (crank). It was absolutely rock solid through me and the next owner (car is still fine to this day).

[mikeedler]

what a joke of a thread! hahah.

muy e46 has 170,000 miles on it now- bought it with less than 30,000 and have had to put only 1 window reg. and a air flow meter in it(other than brakes and tires) and still runs like a champ.

e30s were (pieces of crap) when new too.
maybe your streets suxor or your wife does'nt know how to drive if you went through so many front end parts, and there are always lemons in every bunch---0---
sorry you got one.

the build quality is 100000000000000000000 better on the newer cars vs. the e30-- there is just alot more that can break/ and will.

[e34john]

I think they were built better before, probably took more time since they didn't have to make tens of thousands of them because it seems like everyone is getting themselves into a 3 series now. Interiors seem better in the old cars, not so much of that new brittle plastic everywhere.

But the thing about E30s is the fitment of body panels. My car has been through a dozen owners before me so I don't know how many mailboxes it has mowed over but do the bumpers fit crappily on all E30s? Everyone I have seen has weird gaps even the ones that look mint.

[morningsmiler]

At the shop we very rarely see an E34 or 36 that doesn't need driver's side door cards. They just don't wear well. The seat leather is a bit suspect as well.

[Jon325i]

The worst offender however was a 2002 Mercedes-Benz C32 AMG. The repairs were frequent and always expensive enough to feel like passing a kidney stone when you signed the receipt. MB also had an absolutely ridiculous service methodology. Here's a good example: The transmission began to slip a bit at part throttle one day, so I immediately took it in. The dealer takes a day (no loaner car) and calls me. The exchange went something like this:

Dealer: "The transmission coolant lines share a radiator with the engine coolant. One of the lines developed a hole inside of the radiator, and glycol got into the transmission, causing it to slip."

Me: "Ok, sounds like I need a new radiator, possibly new coolant lines, new coolant and a trans flush/refill too."

Dealer: "Sorry, but no. The test we ran showed too high of a ratio/PPM of glycol in the trans fluid. Our book says you need a new radiator, new transmission, new transmission ECU, and all fluids. Your total will be $6150. However, this comes with a 2 year/24K mile warranty on the transmission!"

Me: "Give me my car back."

I spent less than $600 total for a new radiator, fresh MB coolant & trans fluid and all labor elsewhere, and NEVER had another problem with that transmission again, despite modding the car to the tune of 425HP/420TQ (crank). It was absolutely rock solid through me and the next owner (car is still fine to this day).

That right there just echos what I've heard about other MBZs and the rape jobs the dealers try inflict on their customers. My father has a 2005 CLK 500 cabrio w/ the 7-speed gearbox. Nice car - plenty of kick - solid ride. He hasn't had a single issue with it yet but that's because he's only managed to rack up ~15K miles since driving it off the lot nearly 4 years ago. I tell him about these other Benz horror stories and he doesn't seem to be bothered by them. I'm sure his tune might change once something serious goes wrong and he gets an estimate for repairs. I guess so long as he doesn't use the car it will be as reliable as ever :-P

As for new(er) BMWs, I've seen good and bad sides to this equation. My brother has owned a few newer 3-series ('98 M3, '01 330i and a '06 330i (the '06 is his current car)). They've been fairly trouble-free and my brother uses his cars pretty hard. The '06 330i is a nice ride but I think I prefer the E46 330i more - I got to drive that numerous times and it always felt like a solid car. There were a couple of usual niggles (split radiator hose and cracked plastic flange where said coolant hose tied into the radiator) was the worst of the issues he had to address. He bought the parts and we fixed it in his driveway one day....not terribly complicated. I will agree there is a lot more plastic under the hood vs. older BMWs. What really will dictate how well a newer BMW will hold up and perform is how mindful the owner is with its maintenance schedule. A lot of new BMW owners aren't all that mechanically inclined - they just drive them 'til it breaks or the warranty runs out then go out and finance a new one.

Jon