Advice please! new track/dd: E30 vs. E36 vs. 944 n/a

[Sail Boat]

I have no advice. I haven't run into you in a while and just wanted to say "hi"! :-)

Hey Mike!! Can't wait to get over to Katie's once Covid19 clears up, let me know when you find some time to make it out there!

[Sail Boat]

E46, if you want cheap junkyard parts.

A decent example of a 330ci around here isn't too pricey (5-6k) and then redo all the cooling plastics and it'll be durable for 5 years.

t

Not sure what he's going to drive after the E46 ages out.

For me, the thing about the E46 is that the E46 M3 exists. I fully acknowledge that it is a personal psychological thing, but if I purchased any E46 model other than the M3 I would always wish I had the M3... Widebody, S54, etc... I just love that car. However, watching the pain associated with E46 M3 ownership second-hand (cooling system, vanos, rear subframe, and rod bearing failures)... I think it is too much for me to want to deal with.

[Sail Boat]

Ive own all three cars on your list. E30 is going to be the cheapest to keep running on the track. Like others have said consumables are extremely cheap. I dont own a na 944 but rather a 951 and it is a blast but like has been said you do not really want to work on one without a lift. Parts are more expensive compared to the bmw's but there is still a pretty decent aftermarket. Im actually purchasing a lift because i refuse to work on it like I have been on my e30/36. The e36 is the best all rounder if the car is also going to be used for daily duties. If you are getting one of these as just a track toy I dont think you can beat the e30 for overall fun experience and cost to run. If its going to see daily duties then i would look into the e46's too

Excellent points and glad to hear validation behind the issues working on a 944; I think I can knock it out of the running.

[MR E30 325is]

I just found this old ad and it seems perfectly fitting to this thread.

E36 M3 Ad by MR E30, on Flickr

I've had numerous E30's and a small handful of E36 M3's, and I have looked into 944's extensively in the past year or so.

E36 gets my vote for the situation you described in this thread.

[2mAn]

The 944 is not good to work on without a lift, and still isn't fun on a hoist. Also, while it has a really cool look and a great cockpit layout that makes it feel like a race car it simply isn't as it's saddled with a real POS of an engine. It is at least somewhat fun to drive, and parts can still be had for both early and late models.

What is it about working on it that you dont like? Tight packaging of the engine bay? Ive heard the timing belt and water pump job on that motor is a nightmare

[roguetoaster]

The underdeveloped and half-assed way things are packaged and placed when there is actually lots of space. Specifically, under the dash and the belt drive system. Not to mention the torque tube issues but that's just how it goes with a transaxle. It all had the feeling of VWs budget engineering.

I did like the lifting points on the car that did make elevating one side of the car very simple, and generally the car is very mechanically simple, so in some cases, like the suspension, it's easy to work on.

This was a NA first gen 944 FYI, and ultimately the performance the car delivered wasn't remotely worth the trouble.

[ForcedFirebird]

This was a NA first gen 944 FYI, and ultimately the performance the car delivered wasn't remotely worth the trouble.

This is what it boils down to, for me, anyways. The amount of time you have to put in to do things on a car that is slower than a Miata, but takes 3x longer to do anything. I have endurance raced e30's and Miata's and have changed clutches/trans in them during a 14hr race off jack stands. One time the e30 blew two clutches (rookie diver) during a race and only took like 50min to do the second one. I have also done similar work on 951 using my lift at the equipped shop and have to say the clutch swap on my back in the paddock was the more pleasurable experience, if you could call it that.

[Caperix]

I currently have an e30 325i, an e36 m3, an e46 325it & a e46cic. My vote would be for the e46 as well even if it is not on the list. I love the s30 styling & the tendency to over steer, but they are getting expensive to find a clean example. The e36 is a nicer daily & easy to find with a factory limited slip, but the interiors fall apart, if it is going to be a stripper race car that does not matter. The e46 is newer so better chance of finding a nice car, in 330 trim they are not car off from a e36m in braking & power. The interior holds up much better as well. The only issue is no non m cars got a limited slip.

[TobyB]

Heh- yeah, I think the best E46 would be an M3 that donated its engine to something else- then stick an M54B30 into it for the LSD and stiffer suspension.

But I totally get the 'I coulda had an S54' problem.

Honestly, then, it comes down to what YOU want, Sail Boat-

a 'vintage' car that you update significantly,
or a less- loved, better handling car.

Both will be expensive, but the E36 parts, while maybe more expensive, are
still in production, as the engine is a LOT newer, as is the chassis. So it'll be easier to keep running.

The E30 is an antique design, and you have to drive it that way, setting it up to work around the
roll centers, the camber changes, etc, etc. It's fun- but it takes more driver AND more car tuning.

The E36 is a lot more modern- still has MacPhersons up front (d'oh) but the rear's a lot better.
So you can DRIVE it more and THINK ABOUT it less.

In your case, sometimes I start looking for both, and let whatever I find decide for me.
For me, it was, 'Well, I was really looking for an FJ80, but this nice FJ60 is just too cheap to leave rotting in a friend's driveway'.
It all works out.


t