High Revving N/A V8 Engine Swap - Thoughts?

[purna97]

I don't know, but it's a fun excise vs talking about buying the most ordinary ferrari (360s don't even seem make it into the exotics section at palm beach cars and coffee ). Swapping an E30 or any car is not going to make financial sense but if you're into financial sense you go get your CPA and buy a Camry, you don't customize cars. It's a hobby. Plus, 360 modenas are dead slow by our spoiled, modern standards... a 718 cayman or C6 Z06... heck probably a Golf R would ruin a Modena around a track, and the press cars did mid 12s in the 1/4mi; ferrari is the cheatingist of car manufacturers so you know a customer 360 is probably in the high 12s/low 13s. Remember, there was a time when (maybe still now) Ferrari would blacklist you as a customer if you let a magazine test your new car instead of the magazine testing one of the hopped up factory specials, they didn't even let anyone test their halo car head to head with the other halo cars. Not that OP wants to do this for the best E30 performance, in that case he'd just put a built turbo M20 in the car or an LS3 out of a Commodore with bolt-ons in the car and blow the doors off the 360, the S65 swapped hypothetical E30 while saving tens of thousands of dollars in the process.



Can't argue with that, they must have a cheaper way to do it over there in bongland because I googled some 4.2 stroker stuff and found the kit was indeed over $10,000 US.

That's a fair point haha! As much as I love the 360, it's no longer competes with more modern cars in terms of outright performance. I know if I slightly modify my M3, it would beat a 360 without a doubt.

That's also another point I wanted to make, there aren't many cars that can top the M3 level of performance and exoticness at the same price point or slightly higher (which is all that I can afford). The used car market has skyrocketed, and whilst I will benefit from it too when I sell my M3, things like Porsche 911 997s or a Ferrari 360, which to most would seem like good natural progression cars from the M3 are all a good solid 40k Australian dollars and more. Hence, this is why I turned to possibly building my E30 instead and giving it all the good things from cars that are now outside of my price range, and honestly a 360 engine swapped E30 would run rings around both the M3 and actual 360, given that it's set up right.


Also 14k pounds (18k USD) seems pretty consistent with 4.2L S65 long blocks from say Carbahn (Dinan). Though maybe a little cheaper, but I won't complain haha!

[varg]

Yer if you've got budget for a Ferrari 360 Modena engine built conversion, just buy the Ferrari Modena....it will be way better. There was a 360 at the local coffee and cars the other week, what a cool machine. Best enjoyed in red, with manual gated shifter.

I mean at this level of cost, nothing is out of the question in terms of options, pick your gearbox and engine and just make it work. cut the body around the engine and gearbox, mount everything, then rebuild the car around all the things. Then apply paint and carpet to taste.

I don't know, but it's a fun excise vs talking about buying the most ordinary ferrari (360s don't even seem make it into the exotics section at palm beach cars and coffee ). Swapping an E30 or any car is not going to make financial sense but if you're into financial sense you go get your CPA and buy a Camry, you don't customize cars. It's a hobby. Plus, 360 modenas are dead slow by our spoiled, modern standards... a 718 cayman or C6 Z06... heck probably a Golf R would ruin a Modena around a track, and the press cars did mid 12s in the 1/4mi; ferrari is the cheatingist of car manufacturers so you know a customer 360 is probably in the high 12s/low 13s. Remember, there was a time when (maybe still now) Ferrari would blacklist you as a customer if you let a magazine test your new car instead of the magazine testing one of the hopped up factory specials, they didn't even let anyone test their halo car head to head with the other halo cars. Not that OP wants to do this for the best E30 performance, in that case he'd just put a built turbo M20 in the car or an LS3 out of a Commodore with bolt-ons in the car and blow the doors off the 360, the S65 swapped hypothetical E30 while saving tens of thousands of dollars in the process.

So the built S65 would be a bit over half the price at 22k pounds. I've been speaking to Elise Racing in the UK for this and they've quoted 14k pounds for a 4.2L long block (with all the headwork), 6k pounds for the dry sump and 2k pounds for all the ancillaries and a custom intake which sits a little lower (a necessity to ensure the E30 hood closes). A DCT which bolts up directly to this is another additional 2.5k pounds with new clutch packs.

The Ferrari engine, with have a rebuilt bottom end to factory specs and headwork to get it to 9000 RPM, will cost a bit extra (3k pound extra roughly) from Elise Racing as well. However this is expected given that it'll need custom intakes and plenums (as the current ones face the other way for a mid engined set up), and will also need a custom engine to gearbox mount to get it working with the same DCT (which is an added 2.5k pounds as stated above).

For both set ups, it'll cost an extra 3.2k pounds for the custom Syvecs ECU, but this is what Elise Racing have tested extensively and it's also one they've used for DCT control as well.

Both very very expensive set ups and at the end of the day may not be worth it. So far, I'm just planning and doing research to see whether it can be done or not.

Can't argue with that, they must have a cheaper way to do it over there in bongland because I googled some 4.2 stroker stuff and found the kit was indeed over $10,000 US.

[purna97]

Yer if you've got budget for a Ferrari 360 Modena engine built conversion, just buy the Ferrari Modena....it will be way better. There was a 360 at the local coffee and cars the other week, what a cool machine. Best enjoyed in red, with manual gated shifter.

I mean at this level of cost, nothing is out of the question in terms of options, pick your gearbox and engine and just make it work. cut the body around the engine and gearbox, mount everything, then rebuild the car around all the things. Then apply paint and carpet to taste.

They're pretty incredible cars for sure, and honestly it was my dream car as a child for as long as I can remember. Unfortunately the price for the car, at least here in Australia, is now at least 2 to 3 times what it would cost for me to do the swap, and whilst an actual 360 is 2 - 3 times cooler than a Ferrari swapped E30, I simply can't afford that amount right now.

But you're right, this kind of budget opens it up to many different swaps, which is what I'm contemplating in my head and hopefully later this year you guys will have more details on the path I've ended up going down!

[e30davie]

Yer if you've got budget for a Ferrari 360 Modena engine built conversion, just buy the Ferrari Modena....it will be way better. There was a 360 at the local coffee and cars the other week, what a cool machine. Best enjoyed in red, with manual gated shifter.

I mean at this level of cost, nothing is out of the question in terms of options, pick your gearbox and engine and just make it work. cut the body around the engine and gearbox, mount everything, then rebuild the car around all the things. Then apply paint and carpet to taste.

[purna97]

Based on Ferrari 360 Modena prices on BaT, I can’t imagine how much the motor would be, let alone to build it up!

what kind of budget do you have

Yeah it is pretty crazy.

Honestly the budget for this is pretty undefined and will all depend on what engine I choose. Right now I'm pricing up a few options and seeing what options are feasible. The ultimate limit of what I will spend though is the price of my M3 as I'd be looking to sell this to fund the build.

[purna97]

I'm curious, how much does that built, dry sumped, 9,000rpm stroker S65 cost? 35k GPB is $44,000. I see S65s for US $6,000+, VAC dry sump kit $7,500, that's where I stopped searching but I'm willing to bet a 4.2L stroker kit is $10,000+. Half way there with no labor and no head parts counted yet.

So the built S65 would be a bit over half the price at 22k pounds. I've been speaking to Elise Racing in the UK for this and they've quoted 14k pounds for a 4.2L long block (with all the headwork), 6k pounds for the dry sump and 2k pounds for all the ancillaries and a custom intake which sits a little lower (a necessity to ensure the E30 hood closes). A DCT which bolts up directly to this is another additional 2.5k pounds with new clutch packs.

The Ferrari engine, with have a rebuilt bottom end to factory specs and headwork to get it to 9000 RPM, will cost a bit extra (3k pound extra roughly) from Elise Racing as well. However this is expected given that it'll need custom intakes and plenums (as the current ones face the other way for a mid engined set up), and will also need a custom engine to gearbox mount to get it working with the same DCT (which is an added 2.5k pounds as stated above).

For both set ups, it'll cost an extra 3.2k pounds for the custom Syvecs ECU, but this is what Elise Racing have tested extensively and it's also one they've used for DCT control as well.

Both very very expensive set ups and at the end of the day may not be worth it. So far, I'm just planning and doing research to see whether it can be done or not.

[2mAn]

Based on Ferrari 360 Modena prices on BaT, I can’t imagine how much the motor would be, let alone to build it up!

what kind of budget do you have

[purna97]

Someone has posted a thread about this particular motor, though you'd need to do some custom work... but its the Maserati F136 (I think thats the code) that came in the early 2000s' ... 4.2L ~400bhp and an 8000 rpm redline. Italian V8 noises instead of the S62. Early ones were dry sump also.

I havent seen any engines for sale on BaT but the cars themselves seem to have bulletproof motors. Typical problems revolve around the clutch when paired with the F1 gearboxes

I did see that but I don't know if they actually went through with it. Would have been a nice motor to swap in, and I'd probably try and pair it with a DCT gearbox instead which seems a little better than the older F1 style gearboxes.

The F131 motor I'd be looking to swap in would be a 3.6L, with 420 hp at the crank and a 9000 rpm redline (with headwork to support this redline), so would be a pretty insane little set up.

[varg]

Ok so I had a quick chat to RPE and it looks like it will be roughly 35k pounds for the motor alone.

I'm curious, how much does that built, dry sumped, 9,000rpm stroker S65 cost? 35k GPB is $44,000. I see S65s for US $6,000+, VAC dry sump kit $7,500, that's where I stopped searching but I'm willing to bet a 4.2L stroker kit is $10,000+. Half way there with no labor and no head parts counted yet.

[2mAn]

Someone has posted a thread about this particular motor, though you'd need to do some custom work... but its the Maserati F136 (I think thats the code) that came in the early 2000s' ... 4.2L ~400bhp and an 8000 rpm redline. Italian V8 noises instead of the S62. Early ones were dry sump also.

I havent seen any engines for sale on BaT but the cars themselves seem to have bulletproof motors. Typical problems revolve around the clutch when paired with the F1 gearboxes

[purna97]

I’ve bought a couple of things from him over the years - he’s a good bloke and very reasonably priced.

Indeed! He'll actually likely be who ends up doing the fabrication and install of whatever motor I choose in the end.

[purna97]

Or one of the motorcycle-based V8s. 10k redline and keep the weight low.

Ok so I had a quick chat to RPE and it looks like it will be roughly 35k pounds for the motor alone. That's sadly a little too high for me, not to mention the added 15k pound sequential that mates to the engine, and honestly given the short rebuild times of the motor, it wouldn't last long on the road.

Pretty epic engine though and definitely something I'd consider if I was purely building an all out race car!

[lukeADE335i]

I’ve bought a couple of things from him over the years - he’s a good bloke and very reasonably priced.

[purna97]

Lol... ok, that is a joke. I thought $25k was already over the top & their conversion parts are very steeply priced vs other options that are out there too.

Maybe they think they’re Kindigit (next step will be $200k builds).

Oh it's crazy and so not worth it! It's a shame because a lot of newbies would consider them, not knowing how much cheaper it is to do elsewhere.

Grooty is my go to in Adelaide and can't even begin to imagine how my E30 would be without him haha!

[purna97]

Image if the engineers back in the 80's developed a small displacement V8 using the the M42 heads. 3.6L revs to 7500-7800. BMW E30 CS-R.

This would have been lovely! I did briefly consider a rebuilt S38 motor that's 3.6 - 3.8L and revs to 8000 rpm, but dismissed it because of it's weight. Plus they're getting super rare to find nowadays.