It is hard for me to believe it has been like 3 years and I have had the car sitting for so long without doing much to it. I have found I tend to get interested in things and get burnt out for a while and then go back to them later. Lately just getting back working on this with the probably solution to the loud valvetrain has got me back to looking into the S38.
As I alluded to before about things disappearing, it appears most S38 swaps were coming to an end by 2015. First the supply of engines has been reducing and by 2015 the newest S38 would be 20 years old by then and reaching end of life as daily drivers. Also, the recent boom in e30 m3, e28 M5, and e34 M5 values over recent years proves that the early 2000s/2010s were the bottom of the market and these cars have turned into a more collectible car. Sad, but true. Most forums posts seem to have come to a general consensus that an s38 swap would cost 10k-20k back then based on chassis, engine, and condition. Resources like motor mounts and e30 s38 swaps have been declining and documentation of this stuff on forums have also been declining. Some parts are NLA and or ridiculously expensive. I saw a thread on m5board where a MAF from the s38b36 cost $3500 + core charge from pelican parts! Looking into the swap and reading about the car and Lucifer's Hammer e28, you realize the R&D that went into these engines in the mid 80s to 90s and that these cars were not cheap then. This is a true racing engine for the street. I think you can appreciate things more when you know the history of them rather than just what it is in front of you. It would be like seeing an old slow car vs realizing it was a ford model t that changed history.
With all of that said, I am glad I have left the car sit for so long, waiting. It wasn't hurting anything sitting here and I can keep ironing out details one by one.
Ok, back to the car. Ever since I got it, the tachometer back light did not work. I had been considering sending it to Bavarian Restoration for them to have a look, but all the wiring i had been doing on the other car and solving the intake plenum gave me the confidence to tackle it. I pulled out my space clusters and spare SI boards to see if I could narrow down the problem.
First thing to note is a purple wire. This was connected to the green housing on the cluster which normally goes to cruise control (C6 I think). The original wire color is blue yellow. Well this car doesn't have cruise. It also doesn't have a yellow C3 connector since it only has a euro clock. The purple wire goes to the ecu to a black.white wire which I believe is tachometer, speed signal, which is pin 29 on the e34 m5 pinout.
20200727_191856 by tee scz, on Flickr
20200727_192146 by tee scz, on Flickr
20200727_192642 by tee scz, on Flickr
20200727_191204 by tee scz, on Flickr
So after pulling the cluster I checked the coding plug which may be specific to the m5 or maybe euro tachometer and obc module. Either way it works. I believe the e34 m5 came with an 8k tach which I don't see needing. If it ain't broke, no need to fix it. While I was in there, I found this on the euro fog light. Looks like I will need to repair that to get it working again.
20200727_191948 by tee scz, on Flickr
Then I pulled the SI board out. It looks like the OBC light had seen better days. I had a spare and was able to swap it with bulbs that weren't burnt and didn't have black coloring on them.
20200727_194611 by tee scz, on Flickr
Here were my spare SI boards for the 86+ cars. The earlier clusters have different pins but these all were lithium batteries. I chose the one where both batteries read 2.7 V. This should help ensure everything on the SI board works right.
20200727_194921 by tee scz, on Flickr
After looking, the back housing board may have a burn or something so I contacted Greg's M from Bav restoration and he let me know that this was not the problem with my cluster.
20200727_195457 by tee scz, on Flickr
I checked the bulb, it seemed back so I replaced it as well. There may have been 2 problems with it not working, but this way now I can eliminate one more potential problem.
20200727_195633 by tee scz, on Flickr
Interesting thread on bypassing the SI board for future reference https://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=94937
Ultimately, I couldn't find a problem on the board and decided to replace it with one form my spare cluster with broken mounting ears. They appear the same though one is motometer and one is vdo. After confirming the spare cluster backlights work, I took it apart and replaced it to the housing with the good mounting ears. I had to swap all gauges but that was no big deal. Looks like I forgot to get pictures but now the backlighting is working properly and I have light on the most important temp gauge for night driving.
Last thing I did was look at the stereo wiring. Ever since I got the car, it would reset the radio every time with a turn of the key. I figured there was no power getting to radio in the form of constant 12v. The switched power was working right. Normally that is red/yellow/orange on radio wiring. I got in there and found the switched and constant 12v power were hooked up wrong. I was able to swap them and now the radio works correctly with memory function and it does not reset when the key is turned off. As it turns out because of this issue I have not even listened to the cd in the radio, or stereo system while driving as it would default back to standby mode.
20200729_185328 by tee scz, on Flickr
With that button up, I am waiting on the shims from VAC motorsport. I picked up two in the size that vac didn't have from the dealer at a disappointing $23 each. As my e30 friend says, S38 = Rolex. I also received the correct thermostat from FCP euro. I will probably drill a hole in it to help the bleeding process and use that. Perhaps the old tstat doesn't actuate at the right temp, or doesn't actuate correctly.
In the mean time, I had to compile all of the S38 swap build threads I could find. The dates on these go back a few years and I didn't include thread without pictures. All of this is helpful as most other s38 e30 swaps have cooling problems. I am sure there are more, but with these links all in one place it makes it appear that the S38 is a common swap. It is not common and in 2020 it is even less common. To give an idea of engine numbers:
E26 M1 M88/1/2 Europe 453 (399 roadgoing) uses ZF dogleg, mechanical injection
E24 M6 S38B35 North America 1,767 (135 of those were canadian)
E28 M5 S38B35 North America 1,340 (101 of those canadian)
E23 745i M88/3 South Africa 208 (SA only)
E30 M3 S14 North America 5,300 (18,843 total production worldwide)
E34 M5
HD91 (ECE-spec 3.6-liter sedan, LHD): 5,877 produced from 09/1988 through 04/1992
HD92 (ECE-spec 3.6-liter sedan, RHD): 524 produced from 11/1989 through 11/1991
HD93 (NA-spec 3.6-liter sedan, LHD): 1,678 produced from 12/1989 through 04/1993
HD98 (SA-spec 3.6-liter sedan, RHD): 265 produced (assembled from CKD kits) from 9/1990 through 03/1993*
HC91 (ECE-spec 3.8-liter sedan, LHD): 2,676 produced from 12/1991 through 07/1995
HJ91 (ECE-spec 3.8-liter Touring, LHD): 891 produced from 03/1992 through 08/1995
HC92 (ECE-spec 3.8-liter sedan, RHD): 343 produced from 12/1991 through 06/1995
*Dates shown indicate final completion of vehicles assmebled in Rosslyn, South Africa.
Of the 1,678 examples of the E34 M5 produced for North America (1,484 for the USA and 194 for Canada), the following are the production totals for each of the three model years:
1991: 1,296*
1992: 121
1993: 261
That leaves 8,344 s38b36 engines ever made with only 1,678 in north america. No wonder the S38 parts are expensive and harder to find. By comparison there were a total of 12,254 S38s ever made vs 18,843 S14 variations ever made.
Data from M registry https://bmwmregistry.com/registry.php
Here is a compilation of s38 swap builds and info.
Non- M E24 S38B38 swap, active in 2020, https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...assis-d-633CSi
Non-M E36 S38B35 swap, not active, https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ck-s38-powered
Non-M E30 S38B36 swap, not active, http://www.e30techarchive.com/showth...hp&t=95704.htm
Non-M E30 S38B36 swap, not active, https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...ntent?t=191125
Non-M E30 S38B36 swap, not active, https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...ng-my-s38-swap as well as https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...tecii-s38-swap
Non-M, E30 S38B36 swap, active https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...march-16
Datsun 280, S38B35 swap, active now S54, https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/...ge=23#comments
M3, E30, S38B36 swap, not active, https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-M5-motor-quot
Non-M, E30, S38B36 stroker swap, not active, http://www.e30techarchive.com/showth...hp&t=44067.htm
Non-M E30, S38B36 swap, not active?, https://www.e30.de/fotostory/f02050/f02050.htm
M3, E30, S38B36 swap, not active, https://www.e30.de/fotostory/f00200/f00200.htm
m3, E30, S38B36/8 stroker swap, active, https://s14net.vbulletin.net/forum/s...bas-e30-m3-s38 and https://bringatrailer.com/2016/03/28...d-1988-bmw-m3/
M5 E28, S38B35 stroker turbo, active, https://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=26880 Lucifer's Hammer
Anri, one of the s38 gurus, https://www.m5board.com/threads/dyno...36-3-6.159417/
Non-M, e36, S38B36 swap, not active, https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...36-sedan/page2
E21, S38B35 swap, active posts in 2019, https://bringatrailer.com/2007/10/29...1-with-m5-35l/
M5 E28, S38b36 swap, https://bringatrailer.com/2014/02/10...d-1988-bmw-m5/
Non-M E34, S38B36 swap, https://bringatrailer.com/2015/09/22...w-e34-touring/
E23, 733 S38b35 swap, https://bringatrailer.com/2014/02/26...1984-bmw-733i/ and https://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=124140
E9, S38B35 swap, https://bringatrailer.com/2016/09/02...w-3-0cs-coupe/
E9 S38B36 swap https://bringatrailer.com/2014/05/05...72-bmw-3-0csi/
E9 S38B36 swap https://bringatrailer.com/2013/12/04...973-bmw-3-0cs/
Non-M E28, S38b35 swap, not active, https://bringatrailer.com/2015/10/04...988-bmw-535is/
Non-M, E23 M88/3 swap, maybe active, https://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=146287
E12 S38B36 swap, stackhouse, https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1980-bmw-528i-5/
Good info for S38 swaps http://www.e30techarchive.com/showth...hp&t=85247.htm
Also a good video of how to remove s38 timing chaing and replace the guides without removing the head https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kisfxWFLmLA&t
That should satisfy the S38 lover for a minute or two. If you know of any other s38 car swaps, let me know.
As I alluded to before about things disappearing, it appears most S38 swaps were coming to an end by 2015. First the supply of engines has been reducing and by 2015 the newest S38 would be 20 years old by then and reaching end of life as daily drivers. Also, the recent boom in e30 m3, e28 M5, and e34 M5 values over recent years proves that the early 2000s/2010s were the bottom of the market and these cars have turned into a more collectible car. Sad, but true. Most forums posts seem to have come to a general consensus that an s38 swap would cost 10k-20k back then based on chassis, engine, and condition. Resources like motor mounts and e30 s38 swaps have been declining and documentation of this stuff on forums have also been declining. Some parts are NLA and or ridiculously expensive. I saw a thread on m5board where a MAF from the s38b36 cost $3500 + core charge from pelican parts! Looking into the swap and reading about the car and Lucifer's Hammer e28, you realize the R&D that went into these engines in the mid 80s to 90s and that these cars were not cheap then. This is a true racing engine for the street. I think you can appreciate things more when you know the history of them rather than just what it is in front of you. It would be like seeing an old slow car vs realizing it was a ford model t that changed history.
With all of that said, I am glad I have left the car sit for so long, waiting. It wasn't hurting anything sitting here and I can keep ironing out details one by one.
Ok, back to the car. Ever since I got it, the tachometer back light did not work. I had been considering sending it to Bavarian Restoration for them to have a look, but all the wiring i had been doing on the other car and solving the intake plenum gave me the confidence to tackle it. I pulled out my space clusters and spare SI boards to see if I could narrow down the problem.
First thing to note is a purple wire. This was connected to the green housing on the cluster which normally goes to cruise control (C6 I think). The original wire color is blue yellow. Well this car doesn't have cruise. It also doesn't have a yellow C3 connector since it only has a euro clock. The purple wire goes to the ecu to a black.white wire which I believe is tachometer, speed signal, which is pin 29 on the e34 m5 pinout.
20200727_191856 by tee scz, on Flickr20200727_192146 by tee scz, on Flickr20200727_192642 by tee scz, on Flickr20200727_191204 by tee scz, on FlickrSo after pulling the cluster I checked the coding plug which may be specific to the m5 or maybe euro tachometer and obc module. Either way it works. I believe the e34 m5 came with an 8k tach which I don't see needing. If it ain't broke, no need to fix it. While I was in there, I found this on the euro fog light. Looks like I will need to repair that to get it working again.
20200727_191948 by tee scz, on FlickrThen I pulled the SI board out. It looks like the OBC light had seen better days. I had a spare and was able to swap it with bulbs that weren't burnt and didn't have black coloring on them.
20200727_194611 by tee scz, on FlickrHere were my spare SI boards for the 86+ cars. The earlier clusters have different pins but these all were lithium batteries. I chose the one where both batteries read 2.7 V. This should help ensure everything on the SI board works right.
20200727_194921 by tee scz, on FlickrAfter looking, the back housing board may have a burn or something so I contacted Greg's M from Bav restoration and he let me know that this was not the problem with my cluster.
20200727_195457 by tee scz, on FlickrI checked the bulb, it seemed back so I replaced it as well. There may have been 2 problems with it not working, but this way now I can eliminate one more potential problem.
20200727_195633 by tee scz, on FlickrInteresting thread on bypassing the SI board for future reference https://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=94937
Ultimately, I couldn't find a problem on the board and decided to replace it with one form my spare cluster with broken mounting ears. They appear the same though one is motometer and one is vdo. After confirming the spare cluster backlights work, I took it apart and replaced it to the housing with the good mounting ears. I had to swap all gauges but that was no big deal. Looks like I forgot to get pictures but now the backlighting is working properly and I have light on the most important temp gauge for night driving.
Last thing I did was look at the stereo wiring. Ever since I got the car, it would reset the radio every time with a turn of the key. I figured there was no power getting to radio in the form of constant 12v. The switched power was working right. Normally that is red/yellow/orange on radio wiring. I got in there and found the switched and constant 12v power were hooked up wrong. I was able to swap them and now the radio works correctly with memory function and it does not reset when the key is turned off. As it turns out because of this issue I have not even listened to the cd in the radio, or stereo system while driving as it would default back to standby mode.
20200729_185328 by tee scz, on FlickrWith that button up, I am waiting on the shims from VAC motorsport. I picked up two in the size that vac didn't have from the dealer at a disappointing $23 each. As my e30 friend says, S38 = Rolex. I also received the correct thermostat from FCP euro. I will probably drill a hole in it to help the bleeding process and use that. Perhaps the old tstat doesn't actuate at the right temp, or doesn't actuate correctly.
In the mean time, I had to compile all of the S38 swap build threads I could find. The dates on these go back a few years and I didn't include thread without pictures. All of this is helpful as most other s38 e30 swaps have cooling problems. I am sure there are more, but with these links all in one place it makes it appear that the S38 is a common swap. It is not common and in 2020 it is even less common. To give an idea of engine numbers:
E26 M1 M88/1/2 Europe 453 (399 roadgoing) uses ZF dogleg, mechanical injection
E24 M6 S38B35 North America 1,767 (135 of those were canadian)
E28 M5 S38B35 North America 1,340 (101 of those canadian)
E23 745i M88/3 South Africa 208 (SA only)
E30 M3 S14 North America 5,300 (18,843 total production worldwide)
E34 M5
HD91 (ECE-spec 3.6-liter sedan, LHD): 5,877 produced from 09/1988 through 04/1992
HD92 (ECE-spec 3.6-liter sedan, RHD): 524 produced from 11/1989 through 11/1991
HD93 (NA-spec 3.6-liter sedan, LHD): 1,678 produced from 12/1989 through 04/1993
HD98 (SA-spec 3.6-liter sedan, RHD): 265 produced (assembled from CKD kits) from 9/1990 through 03/1993*
HC91 (ECE-spec 3.8-liter sedan, LHD): 2,676 produced from 12/1991 through 07/1995
HJ91 (ECE-spec 3.8-liter Touring, LHD): 891 produced from 03/1992 through 08/1995
HC92 (ECE-spec 3.8-liter sedan, RHD): 343 produced from 12/1991 through 06/1995
*Dates shown indicate final completion of vehicles assmebled in Rosslyn, South Africa.
Of the 1,678 examples of the E34 M5 produced for North America (1,484 for the USA and 194 for Canada), the following are the production totals for each of the three model years:
1991: 1,296*
1992: 121
1993: 261
That leaves 8,344 s38b36 engines ever made with only 1,678 in north america. No wonder the S38 parts are expensive and harder to find. By comparison there were a total of 12,254 S38s ever made vs 18,843 S14 variations ever made.
Data from M registry https://bmwmregistry.com/registry.php
Here is a compilation of s38 swap builds and info.
Non- M E24 S38B38 swap, active in 2020, https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...assis-d-633CSi
Non-M E36 S38B35 swap, not active, https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ck-s38-powered
Non-M E30 S38B36 swap, not active, http://www.e30techarchive.com/showth...hp&t=95704.htm
Non-M E30 S38B36 swap, not active, https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...ntent?t=191125
Non-M E30 S38B36 swap, not active, https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...ng-my-s38-swap as well as https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...tecii-s38-swap
Non-M, E30 S38B36 swap, active https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...march-16
Datsun 280, S38B35 swap, active now S54, https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/...ge=23#comments
M3, E30, S38B36 swap, not active, https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-M5-motor-quot
Non-M, E30, S38B36 stroker swap, not active, http://www.e30techarchive.com/showth...hp&t=44067.htm
Non-M E30, S38B36 swap, not active?, https://www.e30.de/fotostory/f02050/f02050.htm
M3, E30, S38B36 swap, not active, https://www.e30.de/fotostory/f00200/f00200.htm
m3, E30, S38B36/8 stroker swap, active, https://s14net.vbulletin.net/forum/s...bas-e30-m3-s38 and https://bringatrailer.com/2016/03/28...d-1988-bmw-m3/
M5 E28, S38B35 stroker turbo, active, https://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=26880 Lucifer's Hammer
Anri, one of the s38 gurus, https://www.m5board.com/threads/dyno...36-3-6.159417/
Non-M, e36, S38B36 swap, not active, https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...36-sedan/page2
E21, S38B35 swap, active posts in 2019, https://bringatrailer.com/2007/10/29...1-with-m5-35l/
M5 E28, S38b36 swap, https://bringatrailer.com/2014/02/10...d-1988-bmw-m5/
Non-M E34, S38B36 swap, https://bringatrailer.com/2015/09/22...w-e34-touring/
E23, 733 S38b35 swap, https://bringatrailer.com/2014/02/26...1984-bmw-733i/ and https://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=124140
E9, S38B35 swap, https://bringatrailer.com/2016/09/02...w-3-0cs-coupe/
E9 S38B36 swap https://bringatrailer.com/2014/05/05...72-bmw-3-0csi/
E9 S38B36 swap https://bringatrailer.com/2013/12/04...973-bmw-3-0cs/
Non-M E28, S38b35 swap, not active, https://bringatrailer.com/2015/10/04...988-bmw-535is/
Non-M, E23 M88/3 swap, maybe active, https://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=146287
E12 S38B36 swap, stackhouse, https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1980-bmw-528i-5/
Good info for S38 swaps http://www.e30techarchive.com/showth...hp&t=85247.htm
Also a good video of how to remove s38 timing chaing and replace the guides without removing the head https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kisfxWFLmLA&t
That should satisfy the S38 lover for a minute or two. If you know of any other s38 car swaps, let me know.
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