The complete repair, rebuild, repaint, and v8 swap of my early model sedan

[Andy.B]

To be fair, the person typing that response is probably not the person who authorizes refunds. He is probably being told by his superior that "it's just some guy on one forum complaining... What can he do?". To him, it probably IS impossible to issue a refund.

That doesn't make it any better off course, but it's the short sited decision making that can happen in any business. Clearly, it's getting spread around, and is having an effect on their sales (however small a percentage the r3v audience is).

And frankly, now the damage is done. I have a mishimoto radiator in my e30, and am now nervous about how long it will last. I'm embarking on an m30 swap on my girlfriends e30, and after reading this, won't be buying a mishimoto radiator for her car (as I originally intended). And I certainly will no longer recommend them to other people.

Even if they do refund the money eventually, it's too late. It shouldn't have gone on this long. Someone in that company made a terrible judgment call, and it is unfortunately going to cost the company their reputation.

[MR 325]

After writing that post, you don't see how what you are doing is wrong? Unreal.

My thoughts EXACTLY when reading Mishimoto's reply.

In my opinion they should be offering you the E36 version for free AND a full refund.

[dirty30]

After writing that post, you don't see how what you are doing is wrong? Unreal.

The only option you gave me, in order to get my car back on the road in any reasonable amount of time, is to send me a standard Mishimoto e36 radiator.

I paid for the Z3M radiator, which costs significantly more then the standard e36 radiator, and is nearly double the core size. I paid for the Z3M radiator because I don't think the standard e36 Mishimoto radiator would cool my engine. So how would that help me? You might as well send me a box of rocks. It will be just as useful as an e36 radiator to me.

Your solution was to give me a part that is likely inadequate, and costs significantly less then the part I paid for. A store credit obviously does me no good if you don't offer a part that gets me back on the road. You could give me a $10k store credit, and I still couldn't fix this situation.

If you were to go buy a 2015 M3, and the engine failed after 1 yr/10k miles, you'd expect it to be covered under warranty - free of charge. Imagine then, if BMW said, "Sorry, our replacement engines don't work right. Instead, we can give you a 328i engine, and we won't even charge you for it!" Wow, thanks, that's such a good deal!

This is so simple. I paid for a Z3M radiator. You can not provide me with one. So I want a refund. How much easier does it get?

You CAN refund me, you are choosing not to. Don't say it's 'not possible', as if it's some sort of software limitation or legal loophole. You can very easily write a check and send it to me. Instead, you're going to lose business over this, and it will cost far more then the amount you owe me.

A good friend of mine with an s52 e30 was ready to place an order for the same Z3M radiator. He's watched the way this was handled, and has already ordered a stock Z3M radiator instead. I assure you many others have done, or will do, the same. As I said, you'll lose far more then what you owe me.

When my Z3M radiator pops looks like I'll be looking elsewhere as well. What a shame.

[JGood]

Jgood,

We appreciate you posting to find a resolution with us. Our goal here is to get your vehicle back up and running as quickly as possible. We understand where you are coming from and would like to try and make this more of a positive experience with Mishimoto.

Upon you notifying us about the fitment issue, we worked with our warehouse team to see if all units were like this in the warehouse. If not, a replacement would have been sent out immediately. Unfortunately, this was not case and we were forced to move forward with an alternative solution. Our existing stock of these radiators also feature the overflow nipple clearance concern, we will be modifying our product drawing to alleviate this. Unfortunately, this process takes time and we will not have the corrected product available for a few months.

As you had mentioned through emails, the vendor you purchased this from is no longer in business, so a direct refund was not possible.

Our Production team worked with you and offered our newly designed X-line E36 radiator which would be available within the next 1.5-2 months. Understandably, you could not have your vehicle down this long. We then worked towards sending you a credit for the MSRP of the product so you could use on any product found on our site. This credit amount exceeded the amount you had paid the original vendor. Lastly, we tried offering a standard E36 radiator in order to get your E30 back up and runnning. We are not attempting to offer you a sub-standard option with this unit, just attempting to get you back on the road quickly.

We are more than willing to help with this situation, however, a refund is not possible at this time. Please feel free to let us know if you have additional suggestions or if you would like to take one of the options previously offered.

Thanks

After writing that post, you don't see how what you are doing is wrong? Unreal.

The only option you gave me, in order to get my car back on the road in any reasonable amount of time, is to send me a standard Mishimoto e36 radiator.

I paid for the Z3M radiator, which costs significantly more then the standard e36 radiator, and is nearly double the core size. I paid for the Z3M radiator because I don't think the standard e36 Mishimoto radiator would cool my engine. So how would that help me? You might as well send me a box of rocks. It will be just as useful as an e36 radiator to me.

Your solution was to give me a part that is likely inadequate, and costs significantly less then the part I paid for. A store credit obviously does me no good if you don't offer a part that gets me back on the road. You could give me a $10k store credit, and I still couldn't fix this situation.

If you were to go buy a 2015 M3, and the engine failed after 1 yr/10k miles, you'd expect it to be covered under warranty - free of charge. Imagine then, if BMW said, "Sorry, our replacement engines don't work right. Instead, we can give you a 328i engine, and we won't even charge you for it!" Wow, thanks, that's such a good deal!

This is so simple. I paid for a Z3M radiator. You can not provide me with one. So I want a refund. How much easier does it get?

You CAN refund me, you are choosing not to. Don't say it's 'not possible', as if it's some sort of software limitation or legal loophole. You can very easily write a check and send it to me. Instead, you're going to lose business over this, and it will cost far more then the amount you owe me.

A good friend of mine with an s52 e30 was ready to place an order for the same Z3M radiator. He's watched the way this was handled, and has already ordered a stock Z3M radiator instead. I assure you many others have done, or will do, the same. As I said, you'll lose far more then what you owe me.

[bradnic]

Well written note, but it's a bad PR move for sure - even if they were only wholesaling the part. They've got the most to lose here - who knows how many bad radiators they built, and if JGood hadn't gone public with his experience, who knows how long they would have been shipping them out and causing problems for people (and their reputation).

Should have nipped it in the bud right away.

[Farbin Kaiber]

I'm sure all the bad press on a multitude of forums is worth saving that few hundred dollars as opposed to stepping up and fixing the problem to the consumers desired end result, right?

[Mishimoto]

Jgood,

We appreciate you posting to find a resolution with us. Our goal here is to get your vehicle back up and running as quickly as possible. We understand where you are coming from and would like to try and make this more of a positive experience with Mishimoto.

Upon you notifying us about the fitment issue, we worked with our warehouse team to see if all units were like this in the warehouse. If not, a replacement would have been sent out immediately. Unfortunately, this was not case and we were forced to move forward with an alternative solution. Our existing stock of these radiators also feature the overflow nipple clearance concern, we will be modifying our product drawing to alleviate this. Unfortunately, this process takes time and we will not have the corrected product available for a few months.

As you had mentioned through emails, the vendor you purchased this from is no longer in business, so a direct refund was not possible.

Our Production team worked with you and offered our newly designed X-line E36 radiator which would be available within the next 1.5-2 months. Understandably, you could not have your vehicle down this long. We then worked towards sending you a credit for the MSRP of the product so you could use on any product found on our site. This credit amount exceeded the amount you had paid the original vendor. Lastly, we tried offering a standard E36 radiator in order to get your E30 back up and runnning. We are not attempting to offer you a sub-standard option with this unit, just attempting to get you back on the road quickly.

We are more than willing to help with this situation, however, a refund is not possible at this time. Please feel free to let us know if you have additional suggestions or if you would like to take one of the options previously offered.

Thanks

[dirty30]

My review:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=334770

It's been cross posted to a few other BMW forums, and I'll continue to chime in with my experience whenever I see someone asking about Mishimoto on the forums, until I receive a refund. I know I'll have some pushback from those who support the company, and haven't had issues, but I'll still share my experience.

I'm right there with you on this one. In my 11+ years in BMW forums and other car stuff I have probably once written an unfavorable review of a product. There is a theory in customer service that states you either give the customer everything they ask for or nothing at all. Making an offer to a customer without totally fulfilling their request or denying it altogether, however generous it may be, still doesn't fix the issue. You asked for a new radiator because it has clearly been manufactured incorrectly and they countered it with store credit. Even if you took their offer they end up shelling out money to a customer that in the end is still upset with the product or service being offered. Makes no sense to me and makes even less sense when their claim to fame is basically a no questions asked warranty!

[JGood]

My review:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=334770

It's been cross posted to a few other BMW forums, and I'll continue to chime in with my experience whenever I see someone asking about Mishimoto on the forums, until I receive a refund. I know I'll have some pushback from those who support the company, and haven't had issues, but I'll still share my experience.

[MR 325]

Don't get too excited.

Mishimoto still refuses to give me a refund. Just got an email 5 minutes ago. They've offered store credit instead. What am I POSSIBLY supposed to do with a store credit to rectify this situation?

Ok. That is absolutely ridiculous!

[bradnic]

Don't get too excited.

Mishimoto still refuses to give me a refund. Just got an email 5 minutes ago. They've offered store credit instead. What am I POSSIBLY supposed to do with a store credit to rectify this situation?

To be clear:

- I purchased a radiator based on it's lifetime warranty policy.
- The product failed, and Mishimoto is unable to provide me with a usable replacement.

Maybe it's just me, but I think a refund is the only logical solution to this situation.

Seems stupidly short sighted, especially given this thread. They should escalate this internally at Mishimoto.

[JGood]

Do they have this same problem on their new e36 rad?

I know it is only dual core, but I heard that it was a better core design than the 3 core from the z4m. Almost bought one myself, but went with the z4m because it was all the rage.

The e36 rad is a different design, the overflow nipple actually sticks out from the end tank, so there's no clearance issue in that regard. However, that radiator has the upper hose placed so close to the over flow nipple, that it's difficult to get both hoses on.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that being fixed, it's been an issue for over 4 years and it's been brought to their attention long ago.

Here's a thread from 2010. See the 2nd pic down. At least it's still usable, even if it is a bit difficult to get the hoses installed.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1507382-mishimoto-aluminum-radiator-and-zionsville-shroud-installed

[LoneWolf]

Don't get too excited.

Mishimoto still refuses to give me a refund. Just got an email 5 minutes ago. They've offered store credit instead. What am I POSSIBLY supposed to do with a store credit to rectify this situation?

To be clear:

- I purchased a radiator based on it's lifetime warranty policy.
- The product failed, and Mishimoto is unable to provide me with a usable replacement.

Maybe it's just me, but I think a refund is the only logical solution to this situation.

Do they have this same problem on their new e36 rad?

I know it is only dual core, but I heard that it was a better core design than the 3 core from the z4m. Almost bought one myself, but went with the z4m because it was all the rage.

[JGood]

Don't get too excited.

Mishimoto still refuses to give me a refund. Just got an email 5 minutes ago. They've offered store credit instead. What am I POSSIBLY supposed to do with a store credit to rectify this situation?

To be clear:

- I purchased a radiator based on it's lifetime warranty policy.
- The product failed, and Mishimoto is unable to provide me with a usable replacement.

Maybe it's just me, but I think a refund is the only logical solution to this situation.

[MR 325]

Thanks for the feedback guys! This issue has been relayed to our production/engineering group. Working with the OP on a solution!

I'm glad to hear you guys are opening your ears to your customers! Especially the E30 community. As a mod here I really appreciate it. I originally wanted to order myself one of your radiators but after Justin's recent posts I've been thinking twice. Looking forward to updates on the situation.