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1970 BMW Gruppe 2 2002 (M20B29 Turbo) Build

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    #31
    Yeah. You want one E30 "puck" bushing and one 02 "block" bushing for the engine. Mine is still not road worthy but it runs well and can move in and out of the garage. Still need to button up the cooling system and I should be ready for a trip around the neighborhood. I'll link my build thread in a bit.

    Trans tunnel needed cutting and opening up but after that everything fits amazing. Whether or not you go the same route is up to you but you'll find that things are tight. Mine is a 76 2002 that started with an auto tranny.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    clutchCTRL!
    Move with a purpose.
    - 1991 325iX 4dr/5spd
    - 1976 2002 SlickTop/2.7i M20/G260
    - 2000 323i AT
    2016 Mazda CX3 Sport AWD

    Comment


      #32
      Keep in mind the automatic 2002's had larger transmission tunnels than the manual equipped cars, you will likely have to do some pretty extensive work to get the G260 to fit in your trans tunnel. It seems the general consensus is that most of the tunnel plus part of the firewall needs to get cut out, get everything is in place and then fabricate a new tunnel and firewall section. You might be able to get away with doing less though, I don't have any personal experience on the subject, just seen what others have done a few times.


      --Roundie Revival 2.0 - 1973 BMW 2002 Build Thread--
      --Golden Boy E30 Build Thread-- (sold)

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by kid325e View Post
        Yeah. You want one E30 "puck" bushing and one 02 "block" bushing for the engine. Mine is still not road worthy but it runs well and can move in and out of the garage. Still need to button up the cooling system and I should be ready for a trip around the neighborhood. I'll link my build thread in a bit.

        Trans tunnel needed cutting and opening up but after that everything fits amazing. Whether or not you go the same route is up to you but you'll find that things are tight. Mine is a 76 2002 that started with an auto tranny.
        Oh Good! :) I figured there was no way around it. I plan to do the same. Look forward to the link.

        Originally posted by CubbyChowder View Post
        Keep in mind the automatic 2002's had larger transmission tunnels than the manual equipped cars, you will likely have to do some pretty extensive work to get the G260 to fit in your trans tunnel. It seems the general consensus is that most of the tunnel plus part of the firewall needs to get cut out, get everything is in place and then fabricate a new tunnel and firewall section. You might be able to get away with doing less though, I don't have any personal experience on the subject, just seen what others have done a few times.

        I've seen the same around. I don't think there is a way around it. Esepcially for non-auto cars.
        (SOLD) 1988 327i Build Thread: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=155086
        1970 Gruppe 2 2902 M20 Turbo Build: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=373891

        Comment


          #34
          Just wanted to pop in real quick while at work and drop that link for you.

          Build starts on this page - http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...=165615&page=2

          Also something to take note is where the clutch slave cylinder sits in the tunnel, without making yourself some extra room installing and bleeding that is going to be a bitch, I was very happy to have the extra room. When I finish up the trans tunnel part of me wants to have a removable panel/window for access to the clutch slave.

          Looking forward to more updates, I have a feeling your build will go much faster than mine!!
          clutchCTRL!
          Move with a purpose.
          - 1991 325iX 4dr/5spd
          - 1976 2002 SlickTop/2.7i M20/G260
          - 2000 323i AT
          2016 Mazda CX3 Sport AWD

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by kid325e View Post
            Also something to take note is where the clutch slave cylinder sits in the tunnel, without making yourself some extra room installing and bleeding that is going to be a bitch, I was very happy to have the extra room. When I finish up the trans tunnel part of me wants to have a removable panel/window for access to the clutch slave.



            Looking forward to more updates, I have a feeling your build will go much faster than mine!!

            Thanks for link, definitely gonna read thru it.

            I've noticed that and plan to actually have a access door to bleed the clutch. Stole that idea from Heist I think.

            My build was very slow at first. I've had this car for a couple years and the motor build started before I had the 2002 because I was gonna put it in the e30, but because of smog, I bought the 02. Just keep at it! We'll both eventually get it road worthy ;)


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
            (SOLD) 1988 327i Build Thread: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=155086
            1970 Gruppe 2 2902 M20 Turbo Build: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=373891

            Comment


              #36
              1970 BMW Gruppe 2 2002 (M20B29 Turbo) Build

              So because of rain I wasn't as productive as I wanted. Also my step mom is sick and spent a day with her.

              But I did further disassemble the front suspension and began cleaning. Man was this thing filthy! Spent a couple hours on it and still needs more prep to be welded up and reinforced for the m20.
              Drivers side was clean and had surface rust everywhere.



              Sad to say the passenger side is real filthy. And looks like someone took a hit on this side too. Control arm may or may not be good. I figured I'll try to straighten it out.



              But I ordered two new control arms and balljoints. They have new rubber bushings in them which is kinda lame because I bought poly bushings for it already. So thanks for making more work for both of us BMW

              I sprayed degreaser, scrubbed and used the hose and found I was just wasting my time. It was just too thick. I ended up buying a cup wire brush attachment for a drill, that cleaned it up quick down to bare metal! Now I just need a wheel instead of a cup to get the small corners and stuff. I made a huge mess! But had it to this state within 10 mins after I spent over an hour getting nowhere with degreaser/hose.



              Got a bit more to go, but should be all nice and clean when time to weld.



              I purchased a Miller Diversion 180 TIG. Hope to teach myself how to weld because I'm the only one touching my 02 and it needs reinforcement and coilovers. Spoke to Andrew from IE Today about front coilover options.

              I will be going with IE sleeve kit, adjustable camber plates, offset roll center spacers with the short billy sports. Just waiting on an invoice!



              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
              Last edited by 88SuperETABD; 08-29-2017, 10:42 AM.
              (SOLD) 1988 327i Build Thread: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=155086
              1970 Gruppe 2 2902 M20 Turbo Build: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=373891

              Comment


                #37
                1970 BMW Gruppe 2 2002 (M20B29 Turbo) Build

                So not much progress, but have gotten some new part in :)



                I've been researching chassis and part dimensions on the rear subframe. I am not entirely happy with all the expensive options of running a medium case diff out there. The one I like the best is $1200+ and now that I have a TIG on its way, once I learn how to use it, I will design my own solution to running a medium case diff since I have an engineering background. I plan to CAD, FEA, and practice welding to get my welds strong. Weld up my prototype, test on my car, if it works well, I'll make a JIG and replicate since 2002 subframes are commonly getting m20's or other swaps requiring to move up from the small case differential. Another thing that's happening is the subframes are rusting out. Mine I hope is good, I haven't even gone under to check. I will be dropping it during the shutdown at my company since I'm only working part time.



                Christmas came a bit early :)





                So impressed on how these wheels look for the price! Diamond Racing 15x8 / 15x10, The 8" has 4.5" BS (et0) and the 10" has 6" BS (et12).



                First 8 and First 10 :)





                The powdercoating is very nice




                Had to set up a "display" haha. I love these wheels. They're heavy but will look soo sick for my street set.






                Check out that 6" BS :) When I first opened the wheel I thought it was the lip.






                So the tires and the 8's went back into the vette.





                Doesn't fit all in the boot so one rode shotty!






                Brought em back home and couldn't wait to sit it in the wheel well to help visualize how it will look.






                Then I had to test fit the rear! I had measured off my friends 2002 that is running 15x8.5. I almost did it perfectly. I'm glad I gave my self an extra 5mm of clearance because when I tighten lugs the inner lip hits the trailing arm and prevents wheel from turning. So a 5mm spacer will remedy this. But I'll probably run a 10mm since I have so much flare and this wheel tucks really well actually. I could probably stretch a 195 or something and run it like that but this isn't one of those cars.







                That stance shot :)






                And from the other side.






                Let the trailing arm back down to take out all the camber to see the poke.






                Now I just need to build up my struts, IE should be shipping out my coilover parts by Friday they said.







                This is where I decided to quit staring at the wheels



                So as I said before I don't want to stretch a tire over the 10. I found this 245/40r15 tire when I ordered my wheels.

                http://www.maxxis.com/catalog/tire-513-107-vr-1



                But didn't realize and found out later when I couldnt find any that they're barely in production so I contacted Maxxis and they responded saying they should be available through their website around March '16. Very happy to see the 15" R comp tires are still getting new compounds. I'd like to get the car back on the ground before March, so hopefully I can find another pair of 225/45r15's cheap and use those for rollers.



                So I'm kinda F'd. I either have to run a SC-1 100 treadwear tire until March, if they even release on time or stretch a 225 temporarily. Gonna keep searching craigslist and race shops to see if I can find some take offs since all 225/45r15s are 200 tw tires. Commonly used on miatas and e30s at the track. That's how I got the RA1's
                Last edited by 88SuperETABD; 08-29-2017, 11:02 AM.
                (SOLD) 1988 327i Build Thread: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=155086
                1970 Gruppe 2 2902 M20 Turbo Build: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=373891

                Comment


                  #38
                  Cool, sub'd

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Daaaang where did you find those drawings with dimensions?? As a fellow CAD guy/Engineer those make me excited, probably more than they should. I was planning on modeling the same stuff to run a medium case, but now am thinking I want to keep myself eligible for a vintage race in the 02.

                    What are you using to model and run FEAs??

                    Sweet wheels!
                    The Lineup in order of appearance:
                    91 535i
                    91 318is 5 Lug/E46M3 Brakes
                    91 325is w/ S52
                    88 Vert Plastic Bumper Swap
                    88 M3 ;D
                    91 325ix 5 speed
                    89 Vert Royalblau Metallic
                    73 2002
                    1986 325es --> is swap Rallycross Car!!
                    1995 Chevy G30 Tow Rig... *I SOLD A CAR!!*
                    1993 525i Granitsilber Metallic Touring

                    Need a 91 M5 bad but wife would shoot me...twice

                    *UPDATE: got a 93 M5 and still alive

                    1972 Jeep Wagoneer
                    1975 2002 five speed

                    Check out:
                    Elhartspeedshop.com


                    sigpic

                    Comment


                      #40
                      1970 BMW Gruppe 2 2002 (M20B29 Turbo) Build

                      Originally posted by elcoy View Post
                      Daaaang where did you find those drawings with dimensions?? As a fellow CAD guy/Engineer those make me excited, probably more than they should. I was planning on modeling the same stuff to run a medium case, but now am thinking I want to keep myself eligible for a vintage race in the 02.

                      What are you using to model and run FEAs??

                      Sweet wheels!

                      I found them on Google. Don't know source so I want to verify them with my car/subframe. If they match I'll feel better. At work I have NX9 and Solidworks 2015. Not sure the rules on me using it for personal use but I figured if I take my computer home and in my time model, I don't think they'll care.

                      I'm far from a vintage race so that's out the window. I'm more excited about building the car and enhancing my skill sets and seeing what I'm capable of than actually driving the car. I'm more excited about taking the vette to the track than the 2002. I'm a builder and I just love building/working on this car.

                      If anyone has any info or know where I can retrieve info like subframe dimensions/locating pts. It would be greatly appreciated :)


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                      Last edited by 88SuperETABD; 08-29-2017, 11:04 AM.
                      (SOLD) 1988 327i Build Thread: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=155086
                      1970 Gruppe 2 2902 M20 Turbo Build: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=373891

                      Comment


                        #41
                        The entire rear drive on the 2002 is roughly the same strength, most people don't use fresh rebuilt diffs so they tend to be the fuse.

                        If you are doing your own subframe, I would recommend using all E30 parts, trailing arms, CVs, diff, etc. I don't see much point in keeping the the small 2002 wheel bearings, stub axles, hubs, etc.

                        The medium case diff is taller on top than the small case, that is one area where clearance will need to be considered.
                        Lorin


                        Originally posted by slammin.e28
                        The M30 is God's engine.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by LJ851 View Post
                          The entire rear drive on the 2002 is roughly the same strength, most people don't use fresh rebuilt diffs so they tend to be the fuse.

                          If you are doing your own subframe, I would recommend using all E30 parts, trailing arms, CVs, diff, etc. I don't see much point in keeping the the small 2002 wheel bearings, stub axles, hubs, etc.

                          The medium case diff is taller on top than the small case, that is one area where clearance will need to be considered.

                          I thought about that too, and wanted to use an e30 trailing arm. But then you gotta consider the geometry change, camber curve, wheel rates for spring rates, etc. I already bought wheels and coils for the 2002 trailing arm. I think the 2002 hubs/bearings will be fine, there's tons of guys running wide rcomps and 15s, shoot, even 17s. E30 trailing arms give a 2" wider track width. Which isn't a bad thing as long as your flared like I'm going to, but it's also more unsprung weight that I can't justify making the switch, plus I hope this subframe is successful and it could be offered to the public and not everyone wants to run flares, but may want a LSD that works and medium case diffs are very easy to find and still have decent lock in used condition. And a bigger pumpkin in the back would help F/R weight distribution too. Or if they had their m10 turbo's or they can have a plug n play m20 drivetrain subframe available.

                          Will the wheel bearings last forever? Probably not, probably fail sooner than having a stock wheel too, but wheel bearings last a long time and this car isn't gonna be driven 100k miles anytime soon.

                          I don't plan to use the same axles and from
                          What I read I can't. Catuned has someone make axles for this already. I think 2002 is 8mm bolts e30 diff is 10mm. I have to confirm this. I've yet to mess with the rear. I'm still learning about this car and its suspension. It's quite different than an e30s even though it's still McPherson/semi trailing.

                          Who knows. E30 TA's aren't completely out of the question down the road. We'll see where this welder takes me. But for now. Plan is to make a simple subframe with camber/toe adjustment and house the medium case diff. Don't need to reinvent the wheel here I feel.


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                          (SOLD) 1988 327i Build Thread: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=155086
                          1970 Gruppe 2 2902 M20 Turbo Build: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=373891

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by 88SuperETABD View Post
                            I found them on Google. Don't know source so I want to verify them with my car/subframe. If they match I'll feel better. At work I have NX9 and Solidworks 2015. Not sure the rules on me using it for personally but I figured if I take my computer home and in my time model, I don't think they'll care.

                            I'm far from a vintage race so that's out the window. I'm more excited about building the car and enhancing my skill sets and seeing what I'm capable of than actually driving the car. I'm more excited about taking the vette to the track than the 2002. I'm a builder and I just love building/working on this car.

                            If anyone has any info or know where I can retrieve info like subframe dimensions/locating pts. It would be greatly appreciated :)


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                            I always liked the way diamond racing steelies looked on 02s.

                            Cool the hear that you'll be modeling some stuff of the 02. Off topic but how do you like NX compared to Solidworks?

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by TroyShark View Post
                              I always liked the way diamond racing steelies looked on 02s.



                              Cool the hear that you'll be modeling some stuff of the 02. Off topic but how do you like NX compared to Solidworks?

                              Well I actually am not as fluent on NX as I am on Solidworks. I self taught myself Solidworks in school, and we use NX at work. I took a NX 8 to 9 delta training for 2 days which got me familiar where stuff is but from what I got from NX is it's much more powerful and can model assemblies much faster/better than Solidworks. It's got lots of little tools/addons that Solidworks doesn't have. I take a new users training in January which is a 40 hr class. That should get me up to speed. Will be my first official training on CAD


                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                              (SOLD) 1988 327i Build Thread: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=155086
                              1970 Gruppe 2 2902 M20 Turbo Build: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=373891

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Builds like this are making it soo hard not to buy the 02 I drive past every day to work.
                                1990 325i Cashmere Beige

                                "I don't like question marks. They're like exclamation points, but think they're fancy because they're curved. I won't tolerate it." -MNChiefsan

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