Hilary plan vs. Obama plan

[Alkasquawlik]

I never said it was the governments job to slim me down. The point I was trying to make is that fast food has become so ingrained in our culture thanks to advertising that the fast food companies hold a lot of the blame for the obesity problem. It is the same story as the tobacco companies and cancer. What has this country done to fix the tobacco problem? Regulation. The same needs to be done for fast food.

I see where you're coming from in the first part of your post. Amercans are stupid and are laughed at by the rest of the world due to our laziness and obesity.
However, it is up to the invidivual to make choices for themselves.

The second part about regulation though, that's ridiculous.

it's not government's job to slim you down holmes
its on you and nobody else

I never said it was the governments job to slim me down. The point I was trying to make is that fast food has become so ingrained in our culture thanks to advertising that the fast food companies hold a lot of the blame for the obesity problem. It is the same story as the tobacco companies and cancer. What has this country done to fix the tobacco problem? Regulation. The same needs to be done for fast food.

[Joey Link]

Dude, even the parents grew up eating the shit. When you have TV's and billboards and internet, etc. constantly bombarding you with images of quick, cheap and tasty food, it is going to make an impression on you. People in this country are obese mostly because of this.

Oh the humanity! Those poor people! Evil corporations brainwashing our population!

Really man? How old are you? It might make an impression on some, but everyone I know is perfectly capable of thinking for themselves.

You're always talking about wanting the government to protect and babysit you, maybe we should start a 'Hire a babysitter for h0lmes' fund so you shut up. I'll donate the first $5.

[gwb72tii]

it's not government's job to slim you down holmes
its on you and nobody else

Right.

It's not the parents fault for allowing them to eat that stuff, it's the big evil corporations. People like you who shift blame to "The Establishment" completely ignore what parenting and family should be taking care of.

Dude, even the parents grew up eating the shit. When you have TV's and billboards and internet, etc. constantly bombarding you with images of quick, cheap and tasty food, it is going to make an impression on you. People in this country are obese mostly because of this.

[wildstoats]

The reason this country is going down the shitter is because of our disgusting capitalist establishment and the culture spawned from it.

I was going to say ignorance and complacency ...

[Alkasquawlik]

You can blame that one on the fast food companies. They are worse than the tobacco companies. At least the tobacco companies are restricted from doing any serious advertising. But For some reason its okay to market a 1000 calorie, preservative injected, gut bomb to children. The reason this country is going down the shitter is because of our disgusting capitalist establishment and the culture spawned from it.

No one is forcing people to eat at the fast food restaurants.

[z31maniac]

You can blame that one on the fast food companies. They are worse than the tobacco companies. At least the tobacco companies are restricted from doing any serious advertising. But For some reason its okay to market a 1000 calorie, preservative injected, gut bomb to children. The reason this country is going down the shitter is because of our disgusting capitalist establishment and the culture spawned from it.

Right.

It's not the parents fault for allowing them to eat that stuff, it's the big evil corporations. People like you who shift blame to "The Establishment" completely ignore what parenting and family should be taking care of.

And to the question I posed earlier, there were a few articles yesterday that indicated nearly 10% of all healthcare spending is DIRECTLY related to obesity-related diseases.

Heart disease, diabetes, etc (some is hereditary, but when you eat fried foods everyday adn never exercise.....) those are a huge killer in this country. So that people are big lazy fatasses, is NOT an indictment of our healthcare, but rather our lifestyle as a country.

You can blame that one on the fast food companies. They are worse than the tobacco companies. At least the tobacco companies are restricted from doing any serious advertising. But For some reason its okay to market a 1000 calorie, preservative injected, gut bomb to children. The reason this country is going down the shitter is because of our disgusting capitalist establishment and the culture spawned from it.

[gwb72tii]

i believe, if i remember correctly, that about 80% of healtcare expense is for the aged.
i don't care what the messiah proposes/disposes in his big fucking plan, which is doomed to fail. the only way to limit cost is to limit access, end of story. the government will at some point say you are too old for that knee replacement, too old at 75 for heart bypass surgery, too old at 60 for a liver transplant.

anybody really believe a government solution will improve the current sysytem and lower costs? take a look at that other government run sysytem, public schools, and tell me why the government will make healthcare better.

the "trust" issue, at least for me, is important. and i don't trust the messiah and his stated goals of improving the healthcare system. i think most of this, if not all, is political and a plan for keeping his party in power by fundamentally changing 20% of the economy. it takes away our freedom and ensures our addiction on the government.

[z31maniac]

And to the question I posed earlier, there were a few articles yesterday that indicated nearly 10% of all healthcare spending is DIRECTLY related to obesity-related diseases.

Heart disease, diabetes, etc (some is hereditary, but when you eat fried foods everyday adn never exercise.....) those are a huge killer in this country. So that people are big lazy fatasses, is NOT an indictment of our healthcare, but rather our lifestyle as a country.

[CorvallisBMW]

I did a bit more research on this, and I may have overestimated the cost. All of the reports and studies that I looked up had the cost of malpractice insurance at about 1%-2% of total medical expenditures. I'll go back and try to look up the sources, I forgot to copy them down. The only sources that suggested they were a large part of health care costs were tort reform advocates and people with an axe to grind or a personal agenda. Honestly I'm surprised, I though it made up a much bigger part of the cost of healthcare in general. But if it really is just 1 or 2 percent, that's almost nothing, just a drop in the bucket.

[Ral]

That is very true. Malpractice insurance is outrageous in the US, mostly because of stupid people who want to sue someone for every little mistake. Sadly, it's a cultural thing and those are damn hard to change.

I have heard nothing about tort reform or efforts to reduce the cost of malpractice insurance in the ongoing negotiations and development of either the House or Senate versions. Major improvement is needed in that area, IMO.

absolutely. One of the most efficient ways of decreasing costs. The more I read about it, the more i think Obama/Democrat's ideas will backfire however, without addressing a few key problems:

a. illegal immigration, which ties directly into (and is a cause of)
b. Emergency room crowding.. everyone goes to the ER for things that are not entirely urgent.
c. Limit not only frivolous malpractice lawsuits, but the added and unnecessary tests required to avoid them. As I understand it, many tests are ordered by doctors as a CYA measure, regardless of if they're needed or not simply to reduce their liability if things go south.

d. No public option. As explained in an article in The Weekly Standard,

First, there are massive hidden costs inherent in a little-understood provision of the plan. The centerpiece of Obamacare is a new premium subsidy program. In the House bill, families with incomes up to four times the poverty level would get a fixed cap on their insurance premiums, tied to their incomes. For instance, a family whose income is twice the poverty level would pay no more than 5 percent of its total income for insurance. But providing that guarantee to all such households in America would cost far more than even the Democrats are willing to propose. The plan therefore would make subsidies available only to households getting insurance through the new "exchanges," insurance pools set up in each state as a parallel system to job-based coverage. And full-time workers in all but the smallest firms would be barred from entering the exchanges, at least for a time, so they wouldn't have access to the new entitlement.

This means that two households, identical in all respects including income, would be treated very differently depending on whether they got their insurance through the exchange or through their employer. At twice the poverty level, a family of four today makes $44,000. Such a family insured through an exchange would pay no more than $2,200 for a policy that could cost $12,000, so it would receive a federal subsidy totaling nearly $10,000. The family next door, meanwhile, with the same income but with health insurance provided through the workplace, would receive an implicit tax break for the $12,000 in employer paid premiums worth only $3,600. That's a bonus of more than $6,000 for being in the exchange--or a penalty of $6,000 for having employer coverage. This disparate treatment would be widespread. The Census Bureau counts 102 million people under age 65 in households with incomes between 150 and 400 percent of the poverty level, but the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that only 20 million of them would receive insurance through the exchanges in 2014.

and finally (and most contentiously).. tie people's premiums to lifestyle choices. If you weigh 300 lbs, you must prove at your expense that it is a medical condition. If you can show improvement in overall health (decreasing BMI, lowering cholesterol via eating and exercise habits, etc.) then you get a deduction in premiums.

[CorvallisBMW]

^^ I would be interested to know how much malpractice insurance is carried by physicians in those other countries you listed, Darrin. (I'm looking right now, so give me some time.) I would bet my M3 (hypothetically) that malpractice insurance is one reason we pay so much for health care in this country. Not the only one, but definitely a big reason.

That is very true. Malpractice insurance is outrageous in the US, mostly because of stupid people who want to sue someone for every little mistake. Sadly, it's a cultural thing and those are damn hard to change.

I have heard nothing about tort reform or efforts to reduce the cost of malpractice insurance in the ongoing negotiations and development of either the House or Senate versions. Major improvement is needed in that area, IMO.

[eurotrashm20]

How much of this is related to a sedentary lifestyle and terrible diet? Much of the chronic illness in this country is directly related to those two things.

Not that we have a substandard health care system.

Could not agree more!! My wife's grandparents are farmers in Iowa and are some of the most healthy people I know!! They have been eating food off their own farm all their lives and work sun up to sun down most every day. Her great grandmother is very self sufficient and still living on her own ... she has to be in her mid 90's!!

I really wonder how badly these plans are going to hurt the small business owners (as I am one).