Obama: 6 month report card

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  • Joey Link
    drunkest guy at Oktoberfest!
    • Nov 2004
    • 1176

    #76
    Originally posted by Alkasquawlik
    What can we do?
    Quite a bit actually, but it needs to start closest to home. We have to work to elect the type of people we want in our cities, counties, school boards, water bureau's, etc. You can't start at the top and work your way down, which is why the Libertarian party doesn't win races. Seriously, how inefficient of them is it to waste money running a presidential candidate every year? You have to start small and work your way up to bigger things. Show the people you can handle schools, water, local stuff, then introduce them to the political philosophies you believe in and explain to them how and why it works. We need examples. Many cities and even states (California) across the US have already seen the damage liberal ideas and ideals have done. Most are broke, even though they have excessive taxes. They have high unemployment rates because of the demands the place on private businesses. They're wasteful, bloated, and inefficient.

    I've made a resolution to run for a seat by 2011, even if it's something simple such as a local board. We have to start in our own backyards if we want to take this country back. We cannot change national politics at this point, both parties are too far gone. The best we can do is limit the damage.

    Originally posted by kronus
    The problem is, and has always been, that trying to get anything accomplished in politics is a quagmire. Sure, when you're a candidate, you can talk about how much you want to change everything for the better. However, when you actually get to the captain's chair, you find yourself surrounded by people that have gotten used to the current system and learned how to take advantage of it for their own benefit. People like that won't change because of someone's altruistic values/hopes/dreams, unfortunately. This is ESPECIALLY true during a party switch after a 2-term presidency, obviously.
    I believe this to be true to an extent, but not a hard and fast rule. With the support of the American people you can get quite a bit done. Pressure from constituents of congresspeople really does work, as we've seen with many of the bad pieces of legislation we've been able to squash. I know liberals don't like to think so, but the vast majority of this country is rather conservative (including Democrats and Independents). I believe something like 29% consider themselves to be 'liberal'. When you try to push through these liberal plans and the country gets upset, it's really no wonder.

    Originally posted by Alkasquawlik
    So you're saying Obama is completely innocent? Moron.
    Your arguments are much more effective when you leave out the name calling. If someone is a moron we'll be able to see that through his posts ;)

    Originally posted by E30_fiend
    I motion to ban.

    All in favor?
    Aye, leave your avatar at the door :)

    Originally posted by TheEtaUnderdog
    no one said they were better. But am I the only one who noticed that the only thing Obama supporters can say about Obama is that McCain sucked. They never say one thing good about him, just how much the other guy sucked. I really lol at that. And FYI, it wasn't just Obama and McCain on the ticket, if everyone voted for the guy they actually wanted instead of just "one of the two party people", we'd have a little more choice every 4 years
    To be fair, us conservatives do that as well. I couldn't stand McCain, and I would have gladly voted for a blue dog Democrat rather than him.

    Originally posted by Intro
    Shit you guys are frying him for something he was handed,President Bush left all of those problems for Obama and, now Obama is trying to solve them. What do you think, he is Jesus? Think he is going to cure everything overnight? Give him another Year before passing judgment
    I agree that alot of these problems were inherited, but his true test is how he handled them once he took office. Both liberals and conservatives can see that he's doing a pretty poor job. The difference between him and Bush are minuscule at best in terms of real world effect on us average citizens. This is one reason why arguing about national politics is so stupid. Think locally folks.

    Originally posted by Turf1600
    I voted for Obama. I'm a libertarian. He wasn't my first choice but he's not too bad. I appreciate his effort but I think a smaller government is the answer to most questions. 6 months is too soon to tell. I like that there's opposition though. It's a sign that progress is being made. Whether or not it's positive progress is yet to be determined - but it's progress none the less. IMO Bush was a lame duck and McCain would have followed suit.
    I'm dying to hear your reasoning behind this. As a die hard libertarian myself, Obama couldn't be further from my ideal candidate (Ron Paul). A smaller government is absolutely the answer to most questions. 6 months is not too soon to tell; it would be if he hadn't done anything in those 6 months but he has, and we can judge him based on those actions. I agree about Bush and McCain, but I couldn't have slept at night if I, a libertarian, had voted for a big government socialist.

    Originally posted by TheEtaUnderdog
    oh and i'll state it again, we're all just on a forum bitching and not doing anything about this situation. we all suck
    Speak for yourself :)

    I run a very successful firearms website and I'm preparing to launch a second political website very soon.

    Originally posted by che13
    I had always admired McCain, but I feel his downfall was trying to cater to the right by picking Palin during the election.
    Actually, that was his hail mary. He would have been much worse off with any other VP. While Palin has more personal baggage than Paris Hilton and I don't think her as a person was a good choice, when it comes to political philosophy *most* conservatives and even a lot of libertarians agree with her more than any other national political figure. The opposition is so caught up on focusing on her mediocre speeches and her personal life that I'm not surprised one bit they can't see why conservatives like her. It's not her; it's her politics. Again, they're nowhere near perfect, but they're the closest thing we can relate to on a national level.

    Originally posted by che13
    I don't think Obama has all the answers, just like no President does. I also don't blame him for everything (including unemployment still on the rise - get real). I also didn't blame Bush for everything that happened.
    Simple economics could have worked miracles in the situation he was handed. If unemployment is high you have to entice businesses into expanding. Businesses operate on a profit bases. Since the economy was tanking people were spending less, so businesses laid off employees to maintain their bottom line; something an efficient organization (including government!) should do. By lowering taxes they would have been able to maintain their bottom line and even hire more people (depending on how much they're saving on their tax bills). More people = more spending = more business. Lowering taxes is something Obama would never consider, even if it helped the nation.

    The stimulus could have helped, but not the way they did it. In order for it to work you would have to have divided it up between the citizens and deposited it into their bank accounts. 80% of those people would have spent it, thus stimulating the economy. 'Infrastructure improvements' is one of the WORST thing you can spend it on. The companies getting that business are the companies that aren't hurting for business, meaning they usually have enough people already on staff to complete the task.

    Know where I learned this stuff? Economics 101, literally.

    Originally posted by mrsleeve
    I have always wondered if he didnt torpedo himself and take one for the team (if he really stood a chance I mean, and I think he did). With all the fucking up the D's are pulling and the General people starting to get pissy, I wonder if we will see a huge swing back to a all R houses and President here in the next 2 election cycles. Which in my mind would be just as bad.
    I'm not sure if he and the GOP did it on purpose or not, but I think that's going to be the effect. I think if Romney runs this time he's going to win it. He's a turd too but at least he knows how to create jobs and run a business.

    Originally posted by metalix1021
    Turf, I don't understand how you can be a libertarian and still vote for Obama. From an economic standpoint, he is as far from a libertarian as possible. The guy wants to expand the government to proportions I am definitely NOT comfortable with.

    I don't understand how people can think universal healthcare is a good idea. Name one government program that runs efficiently. I can't. So why would this program be any different?
    Exactly!

    Comment

    • Turf1600
      R3V OG
      • Nov 2006
      • 9815

      #77
      Originally posted by metalix1021
      Turf, I don't understand how you can be a libertarian and still vote for Obama. From an economic standpoint, he is as far from a libertarian as possible. The guy wants to expand the government to proportions I am definitely NOT comfortable with.

      I don't understand how people can think universal healthcare is a good idea. Name one government program that runs efficiently. I can't. So why would this program be any different?
      I didn't see this post. If you've read anything else that I've posted in here you'll know that I'm probably more against socialiazed healthcare than anyone on this board. It's a horrible idea. I voted for Obama because social freedoms are important to me. Like I said earlier - the right will hardly admit that non-believers like myself exist. I can't bring myself to vote for someone who is that opposed to my beliefs. Economically I pretty much disagree with everything Obama does. I never said I'd do it again if given the chance. I probably would write in Ron Paul if I did it again. I also never said I liked how things were going - just that it takes time to see the scope of the damage caused by actions. We won't really know anything until year 2.
      "We praise or find fault, depending on which of the two provides more opportunity for our powers of judgement to shine."

      Comment

      • Joey Link
        drunkest guy at Oktoberfest!
        • Nov 2004
        • 1176

        #78
        Originally posted by Turf1600
        I'm never surprised. Obviously being a libertarian means neither sides appeal to me. The right is influenced by faith and tries to impose on our personal lives - the left may not have the best grasp on economics and supports big govt - which I generally dislike. Since I'm only really given two options I have to choose which of these two ideals I'm going to give up with my vote. I personally wanted to see more liberals in the supreme court because that's what matters most to me. It's also worth noting that I'm an atheist and I very much dislike faith based legislation. Obama has always spoken kindly towards non-believers and I appreciate that. The right won't admit they exist. I feel like my decision was most in line with my principles. You may disagree, but that's your right.
        If you're a true libertarian you'll find, like most libertarians the the GOP is far closer to your ideal than the Democrats. The religious right is actually a very small portion of the GOP, something like 20-30%, so you shouldn't discount the party because of that. Bush used them to get elected, and all of a sudden everyone thinks we're all a bunch of bible thumpers. I choose to work within the GOP to try and spread libertarian philosophy, and it works. The GOP knows that legislating morality is a losing game, and the party as a whole is getting younger and moving to a more 'live and let live' platform. You'll find more libertarians in the GOP than anywhere else, including the Libertarian party. We're co-opting the GOP, it's the only hope for them and us.

        Comment

        • Joey Link
          drunkest guy at Oktoberfest!
          • Nov 2004
          • 1176

          #79
          Originally posted by Turf1600
          I didn't see this post. If you've read anything else that I've posted in here you'll know that I'm probably more against socialiazed healthcare than anyone on this board. It's a horrible idea. I voted for Obama because social freedoms are important to me. Like I said earlier - the right will hardly admit that non-believers like myself exist. I can't bring myself to vote for someone who is that opposed to my beliefs. Economically I pretty much disagree with everything Obama does. I never said I'd do it again if given the chance. I probably would write in Ron Paul if I did it again. I also never said I liked how things were going - just that it takes time to see the scope of the damage caused by actions. We won't really know anything until year 2.
          What social freedoms has the GOP taken away in the past 20 years? What economic freedoms has the Democratic Party taken away in the past 20 years? That should be your answer. Economic issues are MUCH larger than social issues, even if social issues are your primary concern.

          Comment

          • Turf1600
            R3V OG
            • Nov 2006
            • 9815

            #80
            Originally posted by Joey Link
            If you're a true libertarian you'll find, like most libertarians the the GOP is far closer to your ideal than the Democrats. The religious right is actually a very small portion of the GOP, something like 20-30%, so you shouldn't discount the party because of that. Bush used them to get elected, and all of a sudden everyone thinks we're all a bunch of bible thumpers. I choose to work within the GOP to try and spread libertarian philosophy, and it works. The GOP knows that legislating morality is a losing game, and the party as a whole is getting younger and moving to a more 'live and let live' platform. You'll find more libertarians in the GOP than anywhere else, including the Libertarian party. We're co-opting the GOP, it's the only hope for them and us.
            That may be true in Oregon but I'm in Texas buddy.
            "We praise or find fault, depending on which of the two provides more opportunity for our powers of judgement to shine."

            Comment

            • TheEtaUnderdog
              E30 Modder
              • Jun 2007
              • 841

              #81
              Originally posted by Turf1600
              That may be true in Oregon but I'm in Texas buddy.
              and this is about the entire USA?
              Originally posted by george graves

              Are you kidding me? That nerd doesn't even know how his dick works, let alone a car.

              Comment

              • Alkasquawlik
                R3V Elite
                • Feb 2008
                • 4557

                #82
                Originally posted by TheEtaUnderdog
                and this is about the entire USA?
                I think that he is implying that Texas has alot more religous conservatives than Oregon does, although I'm not sure what impact that should have on his vote since it is for the entire USA, not just Texas.

                SC*AR

                Originally posted by JamesE30
                And with a car looking like yours I imagine the balance shall tip in the favor of insult, like a big fat fucking retarded fucking black girl on a see-saw, opposite... a dwarf.

                Comment

                • TheEtaUnderdog
                  E30 Modder
                  • Jun 2007
                  • 841

                  #83
                  Originally posted by Alkasquawlik
                  I think that he is implying that Texas has alot more religous conservatives than Oregon does, although I'm not sure what impact that should have on his vote since it is for the entire USA, not just Texas.
                  exactly my point. his views of a party should not be limited to just immediately around him if he is using that as his basis for the entire population
                  Originally posted by george graves

                  Are you kidding me? That nerd doesn't even know how his dick works, let alone a car.

                  Comment

                  • Joey Link
                    drunkest guy at Oktoberfest!
                    • Nov 2004
                    • 1176

                    #84
                    Originally posted by Turf1600
                    That may be true in Oregon but I'm in Texas buddy.
                    Ah, the state that gave us Ron Paul! Don't lose hope man, you can influence politics. A bunch of religious people holding bi-weekly meetings doesn't mean anything if they're not winning elections. There are a couple counties here like that. You think the majority of people are going to support them or you, who actually has a chance, if you round up a bunch of like minded individuals?

                    Comment

                    • kishg
                      R3VLimited
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 2624

                      #85
                      Originally posted by mrsleeve
                      We are in a calm before the shit storm economically man, right now we are still shedding jobs by the hundreds of thousands every month, We have people that are starting to fall off all the extended unemployment benefits and living on what little credit the have. When all th rest of the mass lay offs of the past 10 months fall off all the extended benefits we are gonna see a huge world of hurt as these people default on everything from their CC to the prime (good stable responsible) Mortgages its going to torpedo the markets like we have never seen. Just look at the patten of the great depression, The very bottom of the markets did not come till quite some time after 10/29/1929, just for these very reasons, but then rather than Unemployment they were living on what they have saved. Oh and yo can thank the Dems for the housing bubble than you Dodd and Frank, "W" didnt help matters at all by letting sitting by the way side and letting many of the constraints on nearly all industry become lax and literally give them tax breaks to ship jobs over seas .


                      I do agree with you 100% about a balance of power being best.
                      doom and gloom.. the market disagrees with you.. btw, dubya blew through the surplus and then some.. he didn't sit by the wayside, he oversaw the biggest govt expansion in the last 20 years. he is/was no fiscal conservative.
                      '12 F30 328i Sport Line
                      '91 SpecE30 #523
                      '00 Ford F-350 Dually Tow Vehicle

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                      128290

                      Comment

                      • Schnitzer318is
                        R3VLimited
                        • Jan 2008
                        • 2057

                        #86
                        6 months time is too soon to tell. NOTHING happens in Washington that fast. Yes he has passed or is working on passing a ton of legislation. It will still need time to either work or fail, six months is not enough time for that.

                        As for the stimulus package... EVERYONE wanted that. Dems and reps alike. Bush passed one, or two as well.

                        Unemployment will continue to rise... of course, we are still in a recession. Taxes will rise to pay for all the new legislation and the war(s). The people with higher taxes though are not the people losing their jobs... it's the lower middle class and below.

                        We HAVE to cut defense spending... we have NO more money. Yes they can print more, but as stated above it leaves great potential for ground shaking inflation.

                        The one thing I think he is doing terribly wrong right now is the health care plan. I wish he'd wait until we are semi back on our feet before diving into revamping the health care system/industry.

                        Oh and I wish he would have let GM FAIL!!! It's basic free market/capitalism. If your company doesn't earn profits over along time period, it fails. Same goes for a few of the banks that received bail out money. But if he did that everyone would be complaining that unemployment would be at 20% by now.

                        I hate to say it, but this country will fail... it's on borrowed time already (200 years for an average democracy). Our gov't (for the last 20 years, not just the current admin) is operating just like GM and the banks did. You can only go into debt so far before people realize you are a terrible risk. What happens when our debtors stop loaning us money? Or worse, want us to actually repay? *gasp*
                        "A good memory for quotes combined with a poor memory for attribution can lead to a false sense of originality."
                        -----------------------------------------
                        91 318is Turbo Sold
                        87 325 Daily driver Sold
                        06 4.8is X5
                        06 Mtec X3
                        05 4.4i X5 Sold
                        92 325ic Sold & Re-purchased
                        90 325i Sold
                        97 328is Sold
                        01 323ci Sold
                        92 325i Sold
                        83 528e Totaled
                        98 328i Sold
                        93 325i Sold

                        Comment

                        • mrsleeve
                          I waste 90% of my day here and all I got was this stupid title
                          • Mar 2005
                          • 16385

                          #87
                          Originally posted by kishg
                          doom and gloom.. the market disagrees with you.. btw, dubya blew through the surplus and then some.. he didn't sit by the wayside, he oversaw the biggest govt expansion in the last 20 years. he is/was no fiscal conservative.

                          Never said he was, Never said W was blameless either.


                          How is it all doom and gloom? Unless shit shapes up faster than it went to shit then we will see some serious doom and gloom.
                          Originally posted by Fusion
                          If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                          The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                          The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                          Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                          William Pitt-

                          Comment

                          • wildstoats
                            E30 Modder
                            • Sep 2007
                            • 896

                            #88
                            Originally posted by kishg
                            doom and gloom.. the market disagrees with you..
                            Are you implying that the stock market is an indicator of the overall health of the economy?
                            $500, Diamantschwarz, and a Dream

                            Comment

                            • kishg
                              R3VLimited
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 2624

                              #89
                              Originally posted by wildstoats
                              Are you implying that the stock market is an indicator of the overall health of the economy?
                              in the long term yes. go look at historical cyclical trends.
                              '12 F30 328i Sport Line
                              '91 SpecE30 #523
                              '00 Ford F-350 Dually Tow Vehicle

                              BMWCCA #360858 NASA #
                              128290

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                              • mrsleeve
                                I waste 90% of my day here and all I got was this stupid title
                                • Mar 2005
                                • 16385

                                #90
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

                                I urge you to go look at the 5 years prior to the Great Depression and then the 10 years following it, see if you find any similarities.




                                Originally posted by wildstoats
                                Are you implying that the stock market is an indicator of the overall health of the economy?
                                I believe he is ;)
                                Originally posted by Fusion
                                If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                                The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                                The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                                Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                                William Pitt-

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