Cash for Caulkers???

[dinanm3atl]

^ New rounds of unemployment.

At that point I guess we label it a success.

[Stephen]

For some reason scrolling downward for a split second, i thought this read cash for coilovers.

Now that hope inside me is crushed, i am leaving this thread

[pbr87]

1) NO not all BS, certainly no, but for me the classes I have been in have had way more BS in them than one would think, and too many kids take it all to seriously.

Most of my econ professors seem have an uspoken policy about not discussing politics during class time.

2) Good, continue to seek them out

I don't seek to learn based on political orientation.

3) maybe so but I can only go on the info you have given me to work with

dually noted

Good luck with law school you plan on using that for a career in politics????? (cheap shot I know :D just could not resist)

Cheap shot, but funny!

For the Record I am not a Boosh fan boy, and did not support Iraq (right war wrong time with no international backing was a stupid move). But the issue remains that we are there for better or worse and we have to support our Armed services and the their mission there and see it though to the end. We mush finish what we have started, something my grandpa taught me, and one of life's greatest lessons on a personal or a international scale. If we dont there will be a victory declared (no matte how hollow) and will become a rallying cry for all the weirdos and extremist out there

We are just gonna have to agree to disagree, and leave it at that

BTW just so you know Conservative Independent, I dont care about party line.

Fundamentally, yes, finishing what you start is a good lessen. However, if the losses outweigh the gains, and said losses, are continually increasing, with a comparatively minimal gain inthe future, perhaps one should end what one has started without finishing. In Vietnam, the U.S. didn't finish what it started--should we have continued that war? Not to mention, the Iraqi government is generating a surplus while we are experiencing deficits of historic proportions. The way I see it, we should let them take over comletely.

Also, I don't care much for party lines either. The way I see it, I'm a "moderate".

On some issues (such as abortion and health care) I take a liberal stance.
On others (such as gun control and welfare) I take a conservative stance.

[pbr87]

Let's compare to cash for clunkers... Cool it boosted what it was designed to boost for a couple of months and now they are right back where they are.

I believe they're still doing slightly better than they were. Also, cash for clunkers did more than just boost auto sales. It increased (even if only nominally) the average fuel efficiency of cars on the road, thereby making the U.S. less dependet of foreign oil.

So we bump up the need for contractors and the workers and then program runs out. Then what?

I don't kow what then. But I know that a temporary solution is better than no solution.
< **puts on flame suit, awaiting conservatives using "bandaid over bullet-wound" analagy"**

[e30trooper]

cash for clunkers was stupid. Hey everyone lets get in more dept!!!

[freeski27]

those who can, do. those who can't, teach. ;)

I honestly think this is a pretty ignorant statement. For the most part, Those who teach are people who have done something for a long time and they care enough about furthering their field, to share their ability and experience with others.

Then again, I am at engineering school; and I can see how that would make a difference. (as opposed to a liberal arts school)

[Farbin Kaiber]

O gawd. ^

[quickervicar]

those who can, do. those who can't, teach. ;)

To quote Woody Allen:

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach, teach gym.

[mrsleeve]

I honestly think this is a pretty ignorant statement. For the most part, Those who teach are people who have done something for a long time and they care enough about furthering their field, to share their ability and experience with others.

Yeah and the ones that do that stay in their filed and mentor the next generations. Well the ones that truly care to pass on their knowledge any way.

I have been very very lucky in my field, as I have gotten to draw from the life time of experiences of 2 of the very best and most respected guys around, combined they have 90+ years of experience 1 in his 70's came outta retirement to train me and teach me, and the other is in his late 60's and owns the place, and I work with him in the field when I can as well.

All that said I think we need to pull away from the whole College only education and go back to apprenticeships and a 50/50 work study programs for secondary education. Start at the bottom of your fields work your way up. That way only the cream rises to the top. As it sits now I really think we have a case of to many chiefs not enough Indians

[dinanm3atl]

I believe they're still doing slightly better than they were. Also, cash for clunkers did more than just boost auto sales. It increased (even if only nominally) the average fuel efficiency of cars on the road, thereby making the U.S. less dependet of foreign oil.

Doing slightly better? Information on this front? Essentially they compressed months or maybe even years of auto sales into a couple of months. We borrowed money from mostly China I would guess. Made our dollar worth less by doing. All so we could give some discounts to some consumers.

In my opinion if 4500 dollars was making or breaking you buying a new car. I don't think buying a new car was a very good idea. Many of those buying the cars were simply using the program for a better discount but the mass "I need to buy a car right now this deal will never come back" may create problems in the future. Such as the housing tax rebates. There are a LOT of people stretching to get into a house just because the deal is good.

The marginal fuel economy thing is crap. Plain and simple. That was just a 'feel good' and 'warm and fuzzy' feeling side note.

I don't kow what then. But I know that a temporary solution is better than no solution.
< **puts on flame suit, awaiting conservatives using "bandaid over bullet-wound" analagy"**

Exactly. You and Obama and the administration doesn't know either. Yet they are sitting there coming up with these type of schemes(really all it is) in a hope to give a small pump into the economy. Creating a temporary bubble on the back of more debt is not a solution.

[pbr87]

Doing slightly better? Information on this front? Essentially they compressed months or maybe even years of auto sales into a couple of months. We borrowed money from mostly China I would guess. Made our dollar worth less by doing. All so we could give some discounts to some consumers.

Not years of auto sales. And do you have any information to support that they're doing as badly as they were. Show me FY 3Q data from some major auto manufacturers and I might believe you.

In my opinion if 4500 dollars was making or breaking you buying a new car. I don't think buying a new car was a very good idea. Many of those buying the cars were simply using the program for a better discount but the mass "I need to buy a car right now this deal will never come back" may create problems in the future. Such as the housing tax rebates. There are a LOT of people stretching to get into a house just because the deal is good.

And this might re-vitalize housing sales, which could potentially give a needed boost to the following job markets: private contracting, real-estate sales and banking to name a few.

The marginal fuel economy thing is crap. Plain and simple. That was just a 'feel good' and 'warm and fuzzy' feeling side note.

It's not crap, it was one of the tenets of the cash for clunkers program. And, it did make a difference, even if only a small one

Exactly. You and Obama and the administration doesn't know either. Yet they are sitting there coming up with these type of schemes(really all it is) in a hope to give a small pump into the economy. Creating a temporary bubble on the back of more debt is not a solution.

The truth is, you don't know either. You're just the Debbie-downer denouncing the people who are scrambling to come up with some sort of solution. You're like the fair-weather fan of the U.S. government. And again, a temporary solution is better than no solution.

[quickervicar]

All that said I think we need to pull away from the whole College only education and go back to apprenticeships and a 50/50 work study programs for secondary education. Start at the bottom of your fields work your way up. That way only the cream rises to the top. As it sits now I really think we have a case of to many Indians not enough chiefs

So we have a former warehouse worker on here @ $16.75 + benefits going back to college & then law school. If I were to go back to my alma mater I would be spending upwards of $14k per semester, plus room & board. There is no way I would ever get my cash back, when opportunity cost is figured in. I try to encourage the high-schoolers I know to examine what it really is that they want to do with their lives. Many times they can achieve it without college. Sometimes they can't.

But college isn't just about education. It is about growing as an individual and learning about life, too (if not more so). An apprenticeship can do that, if set up properly. (i.e. not living with mom & dad)

I fully believe that there will soon be a turn around in the wage/benefits scale that will favor those with trade skills. Most people can't change their own oil anymore. Who's going to fix their sink/lamp/roof? People will be forced to pay a premium for these services in the future because they simply won't have the know-how for practical skills.

[freeski27]

Yeah and the ones that do that stay in their filed and mentor the next generations. Well the ones that truly care to pass on their knowledge any way.

I have been very very lucky in my field, as I have gotten to draw from the life time of experiences of 2 of the very best and most respected guys around, combined they have 90+ years of experience 1 in his 70's came outta retirement to train me and teach me, and the other is in his late 60's and owns the place, and I work with him in the field when I can as well.

All that said I think we need to pull away from the whole College only education and go back to apprenticeships and a 50/50 work study programs for secondary education. Start at the bottom of your fields work your way up. That way only the cream rises to the top. As it sits now I really think we have a case of to many Indians not enough chiefs

All good points; however, we have to remember that we are making technological advances every day. And in Engineering, a high school education just isn't enough general knowledge to throw us into conceptual design and construction. I feel like the best designed/built things come from those with a true knowledge and understanding of why something works, and also have experience in a hands on environment. Thus the idea behind a college education with three, four month long, summer internships like mine.

Although the method of uneducated trial and error may work sometimes, a better option is always an informed plan with mathematical and scientific backing.

You know what I mean? or am i just rambling? (No sarcasm)

[pbr87]

So we have a former warehouse worker on here @ $16.75 + benefits going back to college & then law school. If I were to go back to my alma mater I would be spending upwards of $14k per semester, plus room & board. There is no way I would ever get my cash back, when opportunity cost is figured in. I try to encourage the high-schoolers I know to examine what it really is that they want to do with their lives. Many times they can achieve it without college. Sometimes they can't.

The opportunity cost is 100% worth it to me. I need college to achieve what I want.

Average lifetime earnings by degree.

High school: $1,200,000
Bachelor's: $2,100,000
Doctoral: $3,400,000

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa072602a.htm

Still think the opportunity cost of $200,000 isn't worth it? To many, it is, especially given the $900,000 differrence in average lifetime earnings.
But college isn't just about education. It is about growing as an individual and learning about life, too (if not more so). An apprenticeship can do that, if set up properly. (i.e. not living with mom & dad)

I fully believe that there will soon be a turn around in the wage/benefits scale that will favor those with trade skills. Most people can't change their own oil anymore. Who's going to fix their sink/lamp/roof? People will be forced to pay a premium for these services in the future because they simply won't have the know-how for practical skills.

Think again. Jobs are dissapearing overseas every day. And these jobs aren't limited to the production industry. Not to mention, immigrant workers are becoming increasingly adept to the conditions of the U.S. economy, and are undercutting U.S. workers. Unless you are in a highly-skilled, very specific trade-skilled job, your wage is ultimately going to go down, because either:
a) someone overseas will do it for cheaper...or
b) an immigrant worker will do it for cheaper.

[Farbin Kaiber]

A guy in India can't fix my plumbing issues. An unskilled Illegal Alien can't do it right for 1/2 the price either.