does faith make you a better person?

[E30Kaiser]

They run food panties, organize volunteers to go help out disaster victims, provide counseling and social support, and are generally giving to anybody who needs help.

Sign me up for the religion that runs food panties!

[E30 Wagen]

here's something to think about. A large majority of charities were founded, and continue to be run, by religious organizations. Religious conservatives are the highest-donating segment of our society. It provides a morality structure while younger, and a direct incentive to strive to be a better man. In short, it provides a framework for those who would choose to have faith to communicate with and honor a God they believe in. While most on this board would decry the very idea of "missionary" work, many third-world countries are better off today because religious groups came and brought not only their religion but modern technology and methods.

Religion is not the end-all-be-all of faith. Think of it like a training program, or lattice for a vine to climb. If men were perfect, it would not be needed. But, because men are not perfect, it is needed. So, why would you decry the structure for men to use because men themselves fall short, or use it to their own ends? To draw a parallel, Government in itself is a good thing, but in the wrong hands or used the wrong way it is destructive. Don't blame the idea of Government, but those who fall short of the ideals of it.

For those who think that religion is the cause of, or major contributing factor to, violence throughout history, look at communist/fascist societies that did away with te idea of "religion" or changed it to place themselves at the pinnacle: the Holocaust, the tragedies that occurred during Stalin and Lenin's takeover of Russia, Chinese civil rights violations, etc. People are naturally violent. Religion (generally) provides a buttress to that.

I think this is a very important point. I am not religious at all, but it seems like the major religious oranizations are the only ones who are doing anything significant to help other people out. They run food panties, organize volunteers to go help out disaster victims, provide counseling and social support, and are generally giving to anybody who needs help. These same churches aren't going to require you to pray or worship. All they care about is helping others.

Plus, i just think that churches are a good social structure to have. They teach good values and bring people together in healthy ways.

Still, it's a shame there has to be this "Jesus" and "God" stuff, and praying, and Bible versus, and singing hymns and all that other stuff. doing things in the name of Jesus or God will never appeal to me.

[Scotaku]

I think there are some in this thread who are trying to talk. And there are some who are trying to self-medicate or soothe their own consciences.

[emoshun]

^ He's basing his argument of why faith/religion is bad for you by posting this deranged person's ranting.

As if this is what all people of faith/religion do when they are upset...

It's easier to generalize and point at the extreme, than to actually investigate and talk to educated individuals about faith.

[ACMF74]

I rest my case.

yes another deluded extremist...whats your point?

[Mr Two]

If any of you are interested in our understanding of the universe, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo

[Lof8]

Its great that some people use "faith" as a means or a motivation to be a good person.

However, there are enough examples of absolute evil in this world that God either does not exist or is not "all powerful" as described.

I do my best to be a positive and moral person, but not for any God.

[silversleeper]

Belief in a God, or other supernatural force/being/idea doesn't make you a "better" person. That "better" that you speak of, is what you make it.

I personally think that most believers of God are either those that grew up into the religion and know no better, or those that found the religion and found that it helped them with their lives.

I don't think there is a clear line between what is right and wrong, but I think anyone with commen sense should be able to make a good decision in whatever dillema they may have. Some people find the need for God's "guidance" in these matter, so more power to them.

As for it making anyone better than another, that is false. You would need to take a look at the bigger picture and define the meaning of being a "better" person. That I believe varies from individual to individual. Everyone expresses emotions such as sadness, happiness, jealousy, hatred, etc. That is the human condition.

If someone experiences some of the "bad" emotions more than another person, well there maybe other contributing factors in that persons life that maybe the cause of the redundancy of those emotions. Believing in something greater IMO is the creation of a false sense of hope, a false sense of "happiness". More or less an emotional bandaid.

There really is no clean cut answer to your question bro... Just some of my two-cents.

[nickpdx]

"'Matter flows from place to place and momentarily comes together to be you, some people find the thought disturbing, but I find the reality thrilling."

Religion is merely a means of controlling people and profiting off their fear of the unknown.


:giggle:

[nando]

Christianity is a business. A tax-free business. They were within most European governments until a century ago, and still very wealthy. Still extremely powerfull busines within the US. Thanks for asking.

There are many good Christian souls doing a lot of good work. But they do it for free while the "bosses" get richer and richer. They sure have faith in their bank acount, and in ours to feed the bank accounts.

Data is now 20 year old. Imagine now.

" "The Vatican has large investments with the Rothschilds of Britain, France and America, with the Hambros Bank, with the Credit Suisse in London and Zurich. In the United States it has large investments with the Morgan Bank, the Chase-Manhattan Bank, the First National Bank of New York, the Bankers Trust Company, and others. The Vatican has billions of shares in the most powerful international corporations such as Gulf Oil, Shell, General Motors, Bethlehem Steel, General Electric, International Business Machines, T.W.A., etc. At a conservative estimate, these amount to more than 500 million dollars in the U.S.A. alone.

"In a statement published in connection with a bond prospectus, the Boston archdiocese listed its assets at Six Hundred and Thirty-five Million ($635,891,004), which is 9.9 times its liabilities. This leaves a net worth of Five Hundred and Seventy-one million dollars ($571,704,953). It is not difficult to discover the truly astonishing wealth of the church, once we add the riches of the twenty-eight archdioceses and 122 dioceses of the U.S.A., some of which are even wealthier than that of Boston. "

while this information may be true, I hope people don't take it as evidence of some grand conspiriacy (which it no doubt was used for 20 years ago). Anyone who has billions of dollars of assets is going to have investments in large insititutions. If they don't, they are foolish.

[Massive Lee]

Lee, I have the sudden urge to buy a BBK from you

Just be my friend. I won't charge you for that... ;)

BTW The financial numbers stated above partially explain why the Christian church prefers to pay out when their priests and bishops get trialed and convicted of rape and pedophilia instead of cleaning the whole instituition from its pedophilic priests. Why make changes when the money making organization works soooo well? So much is at stake.

From the first days, Christians were a parallel group/government. Romans had the law, Jews were the merchants at the temple. A proper equilbrium. Until Christianity emerged. While it grew, it became better organized and fight for power was never so evident than during the Great Inquisition when the Roman Catholic church made an "hostile" take-over over the other semitic religions. Starting with the Muslim in Jerusalem, the Jews in Europe and the other Christian variants within the same house....

[TheB1G Lebowski]

If someone knows they won't be punished for bad acts or rewarded for good acts in the afterlife because they don't believe in such things, and yet still do good acts and tries to be a good person, are they not better than someone that does good out of fear or hope for a reward of some kind?

No why would it be different? Faith puts hope in people, faith can make someone stronger mentally, faith puts faith in people. People who do believe and make the effort to live the life and help people the way they are taught makes them a better person for being a human and caring for others. But as far as being better than you or anyone else if you have that mentality as a Christian or other announced faith then you arent doing it right.

[Mr Two]

Lee, I have the sudden urge to buy a BBK from you

[Massive Lee]

Christianity is a business. A tax-free business. They were within most European governments until a century ago, and still very wealthy. Still extremely powerfull busines within the US. Thanks for asking.

There are many good Christian souls doing a lot of good work. But they do it for free while the "bosses" get richer and richer. They sure have faith in their bank acount, and in ours to feed the bank accounts.

Data is now 20 year old. Imagine now.

" "The Vatican has large investments with the Rothschilds of Britain, France and America, with the Hambros Bank, with the Credit Suisse in London and Zurich. In the United States it has large investments with the Morgan Bank, the Chase-Manhattan Bank, the First National Bank of New York, the Bankers Trust Company, and others. The Vatican has billions of shares in the most powerful international corporations such as Gulf Oil, Shell, General Motors, Bethlehem Steel, General Electric, International Business Machines, T.W.A., etc. At a conservative estimate, these amount to more than 500 million dollars in the U.S.A. alone.

"In a statement published in connection with a bond prospectus, the Boston archdiocese listed its assets at Six Hundred and Thirty-five Million ($635,891,004), which is 9.9 times its liabilities. This leaves a net worth of Five Hundred and Seventy-one million dollars ($571,704,953). It is not difficult to discover the truly astonishing wealth of the church, once we add the riches of the twenty-eight archdioceses and 122 dioceses of the U.S.A., some of which are even wealthier than that of Boston. "

[markseven]

I rest my case.

:giggle: