So Virginia bans O-Care

[z31maniac]

Hehehe, not self-employed, but I sorta feel your pain.

I was super happy with my new job big raise in Oct of '08. Then a full year at the higher pay last year, bumped me up a tax bracket.

Fucking weak.

[ck_taft325is]

Having just started a business and going through all the Tax information for even our tiny small business that just started, we have to charge about 40% ON TOP of wages and materials just to cover taxes, unemployment taxes (3.9% now), L&I MANDATORY insurance (having been injured on the job, they will do LITERALLY anything to not pay out ANY money) and handfuls of other small taxes. It blows my mind. In already tough economic times for everyone, we're having a hard time getting jobs because in order to break even and make almost no profit, we're looking at a minimum, just to show up for 8 hours nearly $1,000. BEFORE materials. This year my wife and I, due to not being able to afford being an LLC right off the bat, will end up owing at our projected tax rates, even though we're putting as much as possible and still survive (mortgage, food, etc), over $7,000 at the end of the year from our own pockets.

Think about it. Just think about it. This last year, prior to starting up the business, I made next to nothing due to being laid off. It benefited me MORE to make under $20,000 last year than it will to make $25,000 this year. That's below the poverty marker.

So, Holmes, for you to say that being wealthy is it's own incentive despite the fact that you actually end up making less while if you're poor, the Government is throwing money at you is retarded. Re-tar-ded.

[HarryPotter]

If that's all you gained from any of this thread or the numerous others out there, you're beyond help. No, the Government shouldn't have to, nor does have to offer incentives to be wealthy. The point is thatif you make a lot of money (wealth) and the Government then takes 50% of it away simply because the amount you've made, that's a penalty for being wealthy.

Exactly, this guy jefferies is completely ignorant. It's not like we expect the gov to give us fuckin cookies for being rich. It's just when they take 2 million of the 3 million you made last year it kinda makes you think, why the fuck do I even bother?

So these scumbags that live in section 8 housing (run by dem's and they get richer and richer off these kinds of practices) can continue to live by not doing a god damn thing?

[z31maniac]

Like the poor complaining about the rich not paying their fair share, when in fact the bottom 45% of people in this country HAVE NO FEDERAL INCOME TAX LIABILITY (that means they don't pay any smoky).

The top 1% of this country carry an enormous amount of tax burdens in this country.

Look at New Jersey and New York, they oppresive tax policies there have sent something like $125 billion in wealth out of the state. $125 billion in collective personal wealth has now left for places like Florida and Texas.

[ck_taft325is]

If that's all you gained from any of this thread or the numerous others out there, you're beyond help. No, the Government shouldn't have to, nor does have to offer incentives to be wealthy. The point is thatif you make a lot of money (wealth) and the Government then takes 50% of it away simply because the amount you've made, that's a penalty for being wealthy.

[LBJefferies]

You just choose what you want to read and ignore ANYTHING that doesn't fit in your little box? Amazing, man, Amazing. You've blown me away in this little rant with how little you know or understand. Drink the kool-aide, dude, drink it all down. If you believe wealth ='s evil, you're wrong and I suggest you never advance in ANY field you work in. Want to know why wealth and "evil rich people" are becoming fewer and fewer? Because our Government gives 0 incentives to becoming wealthy. They in fact, as you seem to agree with, believe that if you make a bunch of cash, you deserve next to none of it because you MUST be a greedy, evil, Republican.

Haha so the government has to give an incentive to be wealthy? That sounds so ridiculous. Isn't being wealthy incentive itself?

[z31maniac]

How is your insurance that high sleeve? Do you have a shit ton of pre-existing conditions or something? Cancer survivor? I know you're about my age (28) and fairly healthy, so that just doesn't add up.

When I was contractor for MerCruiser and buying my own health insurance I paid $110 a month for health/vision/dental.

My girlfriend currently pays $88 a month for all those things through Blue Cross Blue Shield.

One lady I used to work with at State Farm, came to State Farm because she was 45 and in the state high risk pool. She had survived cancer and had a few other small problems and her insurance was still "only" $600 a month through a private company compared to your $800 a month for a healthy young guy.

Fuck, my dad got a quote the other day for $750 a month. BUt he is a 58 year old lifetime smoker, who has had 5 surgeries in the last 2 years (one including removing a carcinoid tumor from his large intestine and a benign growth removed from his stomach).

[ck_taft325is]

Shut the fuck up sleeve. When are you going to understand that health care costs in this country are steadily rising? Less hard working people people like yourself can afford health care than 10, 20, 30 years ago. Are you still going to afford health insurance when it costs thousands of dollars a month and your wages haven't gone up? When health insurance costs 20 grand a month per person and is only available to the super rich, are you going to make the same stupid argument that "you didn't work hard enough you lazy socialist?"

The wealth of this country, and the planet for that matter, is gradually being consolidated into the hands of a smaller and smaller minority of people. YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THEM! So I suggest you stop taking it in the ass from these sociopathic businessmen because they don't give a fuck about you. A health care system where the people cannot be turned down for preexisting conditions, where everybody has to contribute and where there is some aspect of price control will still allow for PLENTY of freedom and competition. If you are so against "socialism" then I suggest the next time your house is on fire you better not call 911 because that is "socialism" too.

You just choose what you want to read and ignore ANYTHING that doesn't fit in your little box? Amazing, man, Amazing. You've blown me away in this little rant with how little you know or understand. Drink the kool-aide, dude, drink it all down. If you believe wealth ='s evil, you're wrong and I suggest you never advance in ANY field you work in. Want to know why wealth and "evil rich people" are becoming fewer and fewer? Because our Government gives 0 incentives to becoming wealthy. They in fact, as you seem to agree with, believe that if you make a bunch of cash, you deserve next to none of it because you MUST be a greedy, evil, Republican.

[Wiglaf]

dont whine, my monthly premiums for my self are 798 a month for full med, optical, and dental. (I dont see it per say, its built in to my wages but I have to work a minimum of 151 hours a month to make the premium). But when I am off for too long and I run outta money in my escrow account, to make that, I have to pay it outta my pocket, and yeah self payments suck, but I make them.


And I pay 534 a month outta pocket for the little woman's heath insurance (just med and limited dental).
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this is for the rest of you

its called priorities and personal responsibility, H.I. payments are on the order of importance the likes of rent or a mortgage or your power/heat bill. I pay enough as it is, both directly and indirectly, I dont need to see my rates go up even more thanks to more govt interference. Hallen is again, right on target.


FUCK YOU ALL that wont take the responsibly to take care of your selves and want myself and everyone else who dose along with the govt, to do it for you. Eat a bag of dicks

What you are paying in HI for yourself and the woman is more than my mortage+estate tax+house insurance put together. I'm glad you made peace with that.

[LBJefferies]

FUCK YOU ALL that wont take the responsibly to take care of your selves and want myself and everyone else who dose along with the govt, to do it for you. Eat a bag of dicks

Shut the fuck up sleeve. When are you going to understand that health care costs in this country are steadily rising? Less hard working people people like yourself can afford health care than 10, 20, 30 years ago. Are you still going to afford health insurance when it costs thousands of dollars a month and your wages haven't gone up? When health insurance costs 20 grand a month per person and is only available to the super rich, are you going to make the same stupid argument that "you didn't work hard enough you lazy socialist?"

The wealth of this country, and the planet for that matter, is gradually being consolidated into the hands of a smaller and smaller minority of people. YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THEM! So I suggest you stop taking it in the ass from these sociopathic businessmen because they don't give a fuck about you. A health care system where the people cannot be turned down for preexisting conditions, where everybody has to contribute and where there is some aspect of price control will still allow for PLENTY of freedom and competition. If you are so against "socialism" then I suggest the next time your house is on fire you better not call 911 because that is "socialism" too.

[mrsleeve]

14% of my net pay towards health insurance would mean I would pay approx $450 a month for healthcare.

dont whine, my monthly premiums for my self are 798 a month for full med, optical, and dental. (I dont see it per say, its built in to my wages but I have to work a minimum of 151 hours a month to make the premium). But when I am off for too long and I run outta money in my escrow account, to make that, I have to pay it outta my pocket, and yeah self payments suck, but I make them.


And I pay 534 a month outta pocket for the little woman's heath insurance (just med and limited dental).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this is for the rest of you

its called priorities and personal responsibility, H.I. payments are on the order of importance the likes of rent or a mortgage or your power/heat bill. I pay enough as it is, both directly and indirectly, I dont need to see my rates go up even more thanks to more govt interference. Hallen is again, right on target.


FUCK YOU ALL that wont take the responsibly to take care of your selves and want myself and everyone else who dose along with the govt, to do it for you. Eat a bag of dicks

[z31maniac]

The property tax on my modest 1200 sq ft house on 1/3 acre in town is going to be close to $1400 this year.


14% of my net pay towards health insurance would mean I would pay approx $450 a month for healthcare.

[mikeedler]

trust me-- I do NOT make alot of money over here. I am a service tech at a dealer-- a not prestigious job!
the 14% is of my net pay---after talking to some family members it is pretty "normal" in Chicago to pay a quite a few hundred a month.

now for people that are business owners here they have to take out a "private" insurance it is no longer a % it is a set amount- and I am pretty sure it is possible for almost anyone to go "private" too.

14% isnt a small amount- but it is possible for the small guys that only earn 1200euros or so a month to live too.

Also here in Germany I pay 60 euro/80 dollars a year for property taxes on my house. vs. the 2500-3000 my father pays in the NW suburbs of Chicago.

last year my income taxes that were pulled out of my check was way under 1000 euros for the complete year.

from gross to net income-- I honestly have almost the same amount pulled from my check as I did when I was in the military.

I really don't feel the german health/tax system is great-- but as a normal joe idiot over here it seems to work alright.

there are so many taxes on odd things here it drives me crazy sometimes.
100 dollars a year for dog
20 something for TV/radio !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! a month
300+ a year for each car

and damn-- they love insurance on everything over here!!!

[HarryPotter]

I'm just want them to start small. The way gov't basically fucks up everything, let's go in small increments and see if it works. Versus handing 1/6 of the economy over to a group of dip shits who can't even keep the street lights on and the pot holes filled.

Doesn't it strike anyone as odd, that even though tax revenues are continuing to plummet and the private sector is freezing pay/cutting benefits/eliminating positions, that the gov't is giving it's employees raises and hiring more and more people?

The Fed gov't has the most employees now as it has in the last 20 years. Yet, we continue to run huge deficits, etc, etc, etc.

Just a few reasons why those of us on the otherside can't possibly fathom why some people think MORE GOVERNMENT is the answer.

Government workers are now making on AVERAGE 7k plus more than what somebody in the private sector would make doing the same job. Some certain professions in the gov sector compared to private are making almost double of what you would in the private sector.

[Hallen]

I have a very simple argument for those who are against the government /regulation of healthcare.

I think the end result of the "freedom from government" attitude towards healthcare is the exact opposite of the freedom you all call for. Paying for a service that can drop you when you need it most is an "unfreedom". Leaving healthcare to the free market is clearly not working, and somebody needs to get in there and do something.

I understand what you are saying and you have some valid points there.
Again though, there is some misunderstanding here. Freedom is freedom. Your free to fuck up just as you are free to reach your greatest achievements. Putting my healthcare in the government's hands is a lack of freedom because I would have no choice.

There are laws you know, health insurance can't just drop you when you get sick. What they currently don't always have to do is accept you into a program when you are sick. It's the same as going down to the dealership after you do a money shift and destroy your engine and trying to buy the extended warranty so you can get a free engine. They're simply not going to sell it to you. Also, life insurance has always worked this way. You want good life insurance that you don't have to pay huge amounts for? Yes? Well, you have to get a physical first to prove you aren't dying of heart disease.

And last, our medical system is not part of a free economy and hasn't been for many years, probably 90 or so at least. It is heavily regulated and managed by the government. Just look at my first post in this thread. It's unfair to say that health care sucks now because free market economies don't work simply because our current health care is heavily influenced by government intervention.

"only 14% of my paycheck" isn't really a great argument if you are making upwards of 100k. Not saying that you are, but what is 14% for you might be 40% for me. I imagine that anyone making more than 80k is still all like "wtf is the big deal?"
If you make 3x the average, of course it will be a less than average problem for you.

If I understand you right, you are saying it isn't a big deal to a person making 100k a year to have to hork out 14% of their income? Well it is. 14% to them is the same as 14% is to anybody else. They earned their money just as much, probably more, than somebody who makes less. However, because they do make more, they do have to pay more money for exactly the same thing as somebody else gets for a lot less. You'll understand if you start making more money. It seems all fair and good until you're the one paying the lion's share and then you realize that it sucks. Yes, its less of a "problem", but it doesn't make it any more right. At the end of the day, Robin Hood was a thief.