So Virginia bans O-Care

[mikeedler]

So you want them to mandate Health Care Insurance of some sort? MUST have. Illegal not to have? Then, you want them to tell the population what they have to live like or else suffer penalties?

Bet the world looks so small from way up there on your high healthy horse. Since when did personal responsibility become the job of the Government, people? When? I'm confused when this occured. Seat belts are smart. But it's not the Government's job to make me wear one for "my own good".

I am not all that up to date on the whole Obama health care thing but........
I live here in Germany, pay 14% of my wages for health care -like everyone- and 10 euros every 3 months-- that covers me, wife and all of the kids I want. Doesnt seem too bad to me- and it covers ALOT- braces, glasses, all that jazz.

with your question above-- I remember there was a time when vehicle insurance was not required--- I am sure you would be happy that "everyone" has to have it when someone sideswipes your car.

honestly I dont know which is better, but its not too bad when you know your covered-even when I am visiting family in the U.S. and something would happen.

[z31maniac]

This fucking nonsense is why we are in such a mess. You probably also think we have the best healthcare system in the world.

Let me tell you something, as someone who does have a good job with a perfectly great plan, if I happen to wind up with a long-term illness or injury the first fucking thing I'm doing is moving to Switzerland or Japan, where I'll actually stand a chance of being able to pay all the bills.

And if you think your insurance plan isn't already "paying for everyone else's insurance" or that it's no contradiction to bitch about entitlement programs and then also bitch about medicare funding being cut.. then I suppose there is no hope.

I hope people feel patriotic by derailing what started as a great idea that might actually make the nation's workforce competitive.

I'll start with this one and say, I pay for Long Term Disability insurance.

Do I want to pay for it? No. Do I just in case? Yes. Again, I'm willing to make the monetary sacrifice, if you aren't, why should I spend even more of my money because you don't want to spend yours?

I guess someone has never seen what it takes to become a Citizen in a foreign country. Switzerland is about the most difficult place to gain Citizenship.

[BenM]

shut the fuck up.

you know how much i pay for health insurance? $ 80 a month.

if its so important to you, why dont YOU fucking buy it.

See sig for response.

[ck_taft325is]

If they had come out with that in instead of just playing "let's derail everything and see how far we can divide our country" then it very well could have been a reality by now. Given how the last decade went, I doubt they would give it a shot even if obama's does go down in flames.

And yet, that's all they have been saying for awhile. These issues are big NOW. Not in the past decade. While yes, these then growing issues should have been addressed, they are being delt with now. I'm all for reform just not what's being given out as the salvation and betterment of our country now.

[Dozyproductions]

So this forum needs you Hallen.

[dvs909]

I want national health care, the current system is fucked and Ive been in positions before that I needed it and didnt have it.

I dont really care what the cost is, we need it...cut spending in transportation of tax brreaks for big business...i dont care

shut the fuck up.

you know how much i pay for health insurance? $ 80 a month.

if its so important to you, why dont YOU fucking buy it.

[ck_taft325is]

That really does suck and I'm sorry that you got hammered that way.

You are mixing apples and oranges here though. In some ways they are inextricable, but you have to be careful how you interpret things.

The bill that the Dems are working on now have nothing in them about controlling health CARE costs. They are trying to force 100% coverage on people with taxes and penalties. But, because of the way it is done, we'll have greatly varying costs by state and it is doubtful that it will actually lower health INSURANCE costs.

The reason you get charged $3700 for 4 stitches is because of our current, virtual single payer system. Medicare is already the dominant force out there and is virtually a single payer system as it sits now. They dictate what they will pay for anything. Most of the time, their payments aren't enough to cover what it costs the care providers. So, the care providers must artificially raise their prices on everything in order to insure that the fractional payment they get from medicare will be enough to cover costs. That means that poor schmucks like you get to pay the full, over inflated price, thanks to medicare. Insurance companies use medicare pricing to target what they pay as well. They don't get it, but that's what they use and that's why you hear all this stuff about evil insurance companies negotiating unsustainable pay-back rates with care providers. It's all caused by our government systems. I would guess that 40% of your bill was due to these over inflated prices caused by medicare.

The other reason you had to pay so much is malpractice insurance. A surgeon will pay over $250,000 in premiums for his practice. That hospital pays hundreds of millions every year in premiums. Probably a quarter of your bill went to pay that premium.

The other reason you had to pay so much is that government regulation is often capricious and inefficient. It's supposedly there to keep us safe, which is laudable, but because of the way its done, it ends up costing care providers way more than it should. Probably a quarter of your bill was there to cover these costs.

Yep, that's right. I bet your bill could have been $370 if it weren't for our government trying to help us.

If the Dems get their way eventually, and we do end up with a single payer system, sure, they can dictate pricing for all medical procedures and those prices will be lower than now. But without massive changes to get rid of some of these other stupid costs, either quality of care MUST go down, or availability of care must go down. There's no other way around it. And we haven't even started talking about the horrible inefficiencies of government run programs.

If you do what the Repubs want, tort reform, open the state lines, reduction in regulation, you'd probably see your bill go down by 50% or more, right off the bat. Then if we could outsource medicare to a private system that was run efficiently, we could get rid of these stupid price games too.

So, it's mostly a self-induced problem, and the current bill in front of congress doesn't do anything to address the cost problem of health care. You'll still be paying stupid prices. It's just that it will come out of your check every month in the form of taxes.

Exactly!

[Wiglaf]

If you do what the Repubs want, tort reform, open the state lines, reduction in regulation, you'd probably see your bill go down by 50% or more, right off the bat. Then if we could outsource medicare to a private system that was run efficiently, we could get rid of these stupid price games too.

So, it's mostly a self-induced problem, and the current bill in front of congress doesn't do anything to address the cost problem of health care. You'll still be paying stupid prices. It's just that it will come out of your check every month in the form of taxes.

If they had come out with that in instead of just playing "let's derail everything and see how far we can divide our country" then it very well could have been a reality by now. Given how the last decade went, I doubt they would give it a shot even if obama's does go down in flames.

[Hallen]

In actuality I had been laid off from my old job at BMW because of the slumping econ.

This was only 2 years after from returning from my second tour overseas with the USAF...I was pressing on the crank bearings on a engine that I was rebuilding to sell, so I could pay rent.

Needless to say the arbor plate slipped out from the crank and my finger was crushed....

So now im about 3 weeks out of work, no medical and not alot of cash. I went to the hospital anyway because I was bleeding like a stuck pig. They tell me I MUST have Xrays and some stitches. I refuse the Xrays after learining that the cost for 3 exposures without insurance would be around $4000. The doc stitches me up and I leave. I'm such a dumbass for assuming the low cost of the procedure

3 weeks later I get the $3700 bill for emergencgy room treatment and 4 (FOUR) stitches.


Tell me how exactly that this shit is ok? It isnt! I worked hard my whole life, never been out of work, hut myself once and bingo im fucked. There are pleanty of HARD WORKING people that would benefit from this. And to be honest im willing to spend more money out of every current paycheck to grant this for people.


I pay for my current insurance plus copays and its not cheap, to be honest I dont think its being managed well.

Healthcare is one of the only industries where pricefixing and elevated costs of supplies (read gouging for 4 stitches) is legal.

That really does suck and I'm sorry that you got hammered that way.

You are mixing apples and oranges here though. In some ways they are inextricable, but you have to be careful how you interpret things.

The bill that the Dems are working on now have nothing in them about controlling health CARE costs. They are trying to force 100% coverage on people with taxes and penalties. But, because of the way it is done, we'll have greatly varying costs by state and it is doubtful that it will actually lower health INSURANCE costs.

The reason you get charged $3700 for 4 stitches is because of our current, virtual single payer system. Medicare is already the dominant force out there and is virtually a single payer system as it sits now. They dictate what they will pay for anything. Most of the time, their payments aren't enough to cover what it costs the care providers. So, the care providers must artificially raise their prices on everything in order to insure that the fractional payment they get from medicare will be enough to cover costs. That means that poor schmucks like you get to pay the full, over inflated price, thanks to medicare. Insurance companies use medicare pricing to target what they pay as well. They don't get it, but that's what they use and that's why you hear all this stuff about evil insurance companies negotiating unsustainable pay-back rates with care providers. It's all caused by our government systems. I would guess that 40% of your bill was due to these over inflated prices caused by medicare.

The other reason you had to pay so much is malpractice insurance. A surgeon will pay over $250,000 in premiums for his practice. That hospital pays hundreds of millions every year in premiums. Probably a quarter of your bill went to pay that premium.

The other reason you had to pay so much is that government regulation is often capricious and inefficient. It's supposedly there to keep us safe, which is laudable, but because of the way its done, it ends up costing care providers way more than it should. Probably a quarter of your bill was there to cover these costs.

Yep, that's right. I bet your bill could have been $370 if it weren't for our government trying to help us.

If the Dems get their way eventually, and we do end up with a single payer system, sure, they can dictate pricing for all medical procedures and those prices will be lower than now. But without massive changes to get rid of some of these other stupid costs, either quality of care MUST go down, or availability of care must go down. There's no other way around it. And we haven't even started talking about the horrible inefficiencies of government run programs.

If you do what the Repubs want, tort reform, open the state lines, reduction in regulation, you'd probably see your bill go down by 50% or more, right off the bat. Then if we could outsource medicare to a private system that was run efficiently, we could get rid of these stupid price games too.

So, it's mostly a self-induced problem, and the current bill in front of congress doesn't do anything to address the cost problem of health care. You'll still be paying stupid prices. It's just that it will come out of your check every month in the form of taxes.

[ck_taft325is]

This is really the reason why our health care system sucks so bad. The people of this country are just fat lazy fucks. Europeans are much healthier.

Do everyone a favor and move to Europe then ;)

[ck_taft325is]

america really sucks in regards to healthcare compared to european first world countries. i really believe its due to our lack of national healthcare.

its time for us to step up.

smokers, obese people, people with high cholesterol, etc, need to pay heavier premiums though. if they want to be unhealthy, fine by me, but they have to pay for it.

So you want them to mandate Health Care Insurance of some sort? MUST have. Illegal not to have? Then, you want them to tell the population what they have to live like or else suffer penalties?

Bet the world looks so small from way up there on your high healthy horse. Since when did personal responsibility become the job of the Government, people? When? I'm confused when this occured. Seat belts are smart. But it's not the Government's job to make me wear one for "my own good".

[Kershaw]

yep.

their entire quality of life is a good bit higher than ours.

except we can own guns. big fucking guns. :up: thats a big bonus for us.

[LBJefferies]

smokers, obese people, people with high cholesterol, etc,

This is really the reason why our health care system sucks so bad. The people of this country are just fat lazy fucks. Europeans are much healthier.

[Kershaw]

america really sucks in regards to healthcare compared to european first world countries. i really believe its due to our lack of national healthcare.

its time for us to step up.

smokers, obese people, people with high cholesterol, etc, need to pay heavier premiums though. if they want to be unhealthy, fine by me, but they have to pay for it.

[kronus]

Yeah, maybe allowing all those businesses to move their manufacturing to Communist slave states wasn't so smart. They used to have factories in the US that paid American workers that created tax revenue to pay for the infrastructure. At least now we can live better at Walmart while simultaneously enriching those who live under the Chinese Communist Party.

Then there are those major league teams on corporate welfare- I read a case study about Cincinnati, OH and how two new stadiums got shoved down the voters throats, and now neither the Reds nor Bengals pay rent anymore due to the sweetheart deal and how the city is laying off cops and cutting vital services. The guys who brokered that deal have moved on to greened pastures.

What about fatcat politicians who are paid six figures, but who still have their Gold Plated Health policies paid by taxpayers who have no coverage?

It's pretty screwed and the sad fact is neither party can fix it. Were every liberal Democrat simply to vaporize overnight, the GOP still couldn't tie its own shoelaces. Pathetic.

Lets not even talk about:

• The War on Drugs (19 billion per year)
• The War on Terror (trillions that we know of)
• Unbelievable corruption on both sides of the aisle

This "thing" that the country has become did not begin with the election of Obama. The GOP continually acts as if everything was beer and Skittles until he showed up. Puhleeeeze.......

.....but of course, if you ask any stupid hillbilly redneck, they'll tell you that's precisely what happened....

fukken +1, but China isn't really a communist state anymore.