So Virginia bans O-Care

[z31maniac]

Personal HI mandates aren't in effect until 2014, and unless you have more than 50 employees, you're not required to provide it as an employer.

But from everythng I've read, taxes start this year. But youre right, 10 years of taxes for 6 years of benefits is sustainable

I wish "johnwoo" would chime in. He is a doc here in the realistic part od the country that understands how fucked up things become with gov't involvement in healthcare.

[ck_taft325is]

"The motion is really a last-ditch effort of 98 years of denying Americans health care," Stupak said. "It is the Democrats who have stood up for the principal of no public funding of abortions. It is Democrats through the president's executive order that ensure the sanctity of life is protected." - Stupak

Yeah, because Republican's have been trying to screw EVERYONE out of Health Care for 98 years. Give me a fucking break. If I was a Democrat I would be outraged with that blatant stupidity from a Congressman.

[Japandrew73]

Funny how people who like to castigate others for "repeating the same rhetoric" often don't know the true meaning of rhetoric, and they also just use the phrase as a semi-polite way of saying "shut up".

The whole deal with that survey where it showed that people where in favor of the individual parts of the bill, was that they were only asked about some of the things in the bill. Mostly, about the stuff that is perceived as "free" to the voter and that "sticks it to" the insurance companies. Righteous indignation is a wonderful thing, even when it is dead wrong. Oh, and from what I remember, the margins on each individual item were not that high, only a few points. So, your Rhetoric is the same old stuff being spewed by the left, and doesn't have much foundation in reality.

You cannot break up the individual parts of the bill and pole on it and then come back and say that the bill is favored by the majority. It's simply not true. It's a distortion of the facts, intentionally done to influence the feeble minded and those who just aren't paying that much attention. It's dishonest and wrong.

This is a government take over. It really is that simple. It's a government take over of health insurance. Sure, the companies themselves are still privately held, or publicly on the market, but their hands are going to be tied. They will be mandated to provide products that are unsustainable. They will be mandated to do a lot of things that are not conducive to sound business practices. Rates will go up, not down.

But, I'll give you that point. It isn't the government abolishing private insurance in favor of a government only insurance plan. It's a moot point anyway because the bill won't do what the proponents say it will. My fear is that because this bill is doomed to failure, the left will step in once again saying that it is a public mandate for a complete government take over of the medical system. You watch, they will try it.

It is also going to be a horrible tax burden on us all, it will be yet another form of government entitlement that we all have to pay for, and it won't do a damn thing to control health care costs. Tort reform would have been a place to start. But the trial lawyers won out on that one. I'm sure the dem's coffers will be running over with donations from them this year.

Go ahead and cheer and jeer. Your party pushed an unwanted bill through using slimy practices and outright bribes and graft. People should be going to jail. Instead, our President will proudly sign this piece of shit and tell us all that it is something we should all feel good about. What a crock.

Seriously, Pelosi should go to jail over this. Al Capone would have been proud of our Nancy. She can crack kneecaps and grease palms with the best of them.

Sounds like you'll be celebrating tonight!

[ck_taft325is]

Un-related, but are you fucking serious?
Pro-Choice organization,

"The National Organization for Women"

""President Obama campaigned as a pro-choice president, but his actions today suggest that his commitment to reproductive health care is shaky at best. ... We see now that we have our work cut out for us far beyond what we ever anticipated. The message we have received today is that it is acceptable to negotiate health care on the backs of women, and we couldn't disagree more," the group said."

[mrsleeve]

Where are you guys reading up on what passed?

here you go enjoy the whole thing ought to be there all 2000+ pages in the Full text portion

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-3590

[dinanm3atl]

Where are you guys reading up on what passed? I'd love to read through it a bit while I get absolutely smashed on cold medicine and Jack Daniels.

Purple Drank... grip it and sip it!

[ck_taft325is]

Where are you guys reading up on what passed? I'd love to read through it a bit while I get absolutely smashed on cold medicine and Jack Daniels.

[ck_taft325is]

Personal HI mandates aren't in effect until 2014, and unless you have more than 50 employees, you're not required to provide it as an employer.

I think WA State requires businesses to carry a H.I. benefit and if the employee does not want it, they have to sign a waiver. I'm not 100% on this, but every employer I've worked for (in the Construction fields) has offered and had me sign a waiver if I didn't want to pay for it.

That aside, we're already getting killed in taxes. Tax increases as a small business owner will rape us this year.

[dinanm3atl]

Funny how people who like to castigate others for "repeating the same rhetoric" often don't know the true meaning of rhetoric, and they also just use the phrase as a semi-polite way of saying "shut up".

The whole deal with that survey where it showed that people where in favor of the individual parts of the bill, was that they were only asked about some of the things in the bill. Mostly, about the stuff that is perceived as "free" to the voter and that "sticks it to" the insurance companies. Righteous indignation is a wonderful thing, even when it is dead wrong. Oh, and from what I remember, the margins on each individual item were not that high, only a few points. So, your Rhetoric is the same old stuff being spewed by the left, and doesn't have much foundation in reality.

You cannot break up the individual parts of the bill and pole on it and then come back and say that the bill is favored by the majority. It's simply not true. It's a distortion of the facts, intentionally done to influence the feeble minded and those who just aren't paying that much attention. It's dishonest and wrong.

This is a government take over. It really is that simple. It's a government take over of health insurance. Sure, the companies themselves are still privately held, or publicly on the market, but their hands are going to be tied. They will be mandated to provide products that are unsustainable. They will be mandated to do a lot of things that are not conducive to sound business practices. Rates will go up, not down.

But, I'll give you that point. It isn't the government abolishing private insurance in favor of a government only insurance plan. It's a moot point anyway because the bill won't do what the proponents say it will. My fear is that because this bill is doomed to failure, the left will step in once again saying that it is a public mandate for a complete government take over of the medical system. You watch, they will try it.

It is also going to be a horrible tax burden on us all, it will be yet another form of government entitlement that we all have to pay for, and it won't do a damn thing to control health care costs. Tort reform would have been a place to start. But the trial lawyers won out on that one. I'm sure the dem's coffers will be running over with donations from them this year.

Go ahead and cheer and jeer. Your party pushed an unwanted bill through using slimy practices and outright bribes and graft. People should be going to jail. Instead, our President will proudly sign this piece of shit and tell us all that it is something we should all feel good about. What a crock.

Seriously, Pelosi should go to jail over this. Al Capone would have been proud of our Nancy. She can crack kneecaps and grease palms with the best of them.

Agreed. It is unbelievable that this is how this sort of huge issue gets passed through. It isn't a 'government program'. It is still going to be government controlled. 16,000 new IRS agents to handle this alone. And it is not government controlled? I laugh at that notion.

I don't have what they deem 'acceptable' so I can get fined? The list goes on and on and it is a dirty sham.

[KenC]

This is going to wreck my business more than likely. To get jobs we're already bidding at almost no profit and I'm not even paying myself what I should... we take taxes out before anything but with H.I. mandatory on top of state run L&I insurance for business and the Unemployment taxes at a ridiculous rate (3.9%) it's just going to bury us.

I literally underbid the man hours and eat the extra 10-35 hours per job just to keep money coming in.

Personal HI mandates aren't in effect until 2014, and unless you have more than 50 employees, you're not required to provide it as an employer.

[dinanm3atl]

sigh

[Hallen]

You seem to be repeating the same rhetoric in slightly different forms, yet don't articulate any specific concerns. The vast majority of the bill is going to be mandates on insurance companies (which are overwhelmingly popular), and subsidies to purchase insurance.

I guess I'm just trying to dispell the "government takeover" talking point that every clueless person seems to be spouting.

I'm pretty upset that strict tort reform doesn't look like it's making into the ammendments. I really hope that states take up the issue now that it's been placed in the forefront. It narrowly failed here in 2004, and my state's public institutions are struggling due to a recent court case removing any tort cap (which as rediculously low in the first place).

Funny how people who like to castigate others for "repeating the same rhetoric" often don't know the true meaning of rhetoric, and they also just use the phrase as a semi-polite way of saying "shut up".

The whole deal with that survey where it showed that people where in favor of the individual parts of the bill, was that they were only asked about some of the things in the bill. Mostly, about the stuff that is perceived as "free" to the voter and that "sticks it to" the insurance companies. Righteous indignation is a wonderful thing, even when it is dead wrong. Oh, and from what I remember, the margins on each individual item were not that high, only a few points. So, your Rhetoric is the same old stuff being spewed by the left, and doesn't have much foundation in reality.

You cannot break up the individual parts of the bill and pole on it and then come back and say that the bill is favored by the majority. It's simply not true. It's a distortion of the facts, intentionally done to influence the feeble minded and those who just aren't paying that much attention. It's dishonest and wrong.

This is a government take over. It really is that simple. It's a government take over of health insurance. Sure, the companies themselves are still privately held, or publicly on the market, but their hands are going to be tied. They will be mandated to provide products that are unsustainable. They will be mandated to do a lot of things that are not conducive to sound business practices. Rates will go up, not down.

But, I'll give you that point. It isn't the government abolishing private insurance in favor of a government only insurance plan. It's a moot point anyway because the bill won't do what the proponents say it will. My fear is that because this bill is doomed to failure, the left will step in once again saying that it is a public mandate for a complete government take over of the medical system. You watch, they will try it.

It is also going to be a horrible tax burden on us all, it will be yet another form of government entitlement that we all have to pay for, and it won't do a damn thing to control health care costs. Tort reform would have been a place to start. But the trial lawyers won out on that one. I'm sure the dem's coffers will be running over with donations from them this year.

Go ahead and cheer and jeer. Your party pushed an unwanted bill through using slimy practices and outright bribes and graft. People should be going to jail. Instead, our President will proudly sign this piece of shit and tell us all that it is something we should all feel good about. What a crock.

Seriously, Pelosi should go to jail over this. Al Capone would have been proud of our Nancy. She can crack kneecaps and grease palms with the best of them.

[KenC]

Why couldn't socialist health care have lost to a #9 seed like Kansas? #obamasbracket

GobernmeNt takeoVERZ!!!!?!111

[ck_taft325is]

This is going to wreck my business more than likely. To get jobs we're already bidding at almost no profit and I'm not even paying myself what I should... we take taxes out before anything but with H.I. mandatory on top of state run L&I insurance for business and the Unemployment taxes at a ridiculous rate (3.9%) it's just going to bury us.

I literally underbid the man hours and eat the extra 10-35 hours per job just to keep money coming in.

[mrsleeve]

I'm interested to see the amendments that come through reconciliation...

NONE OF THAT MATTERS NOW


This is the senate bill, its NOW LAW period (its a given that O will sign it)


they dont have to pass any changes to it at all if they dont wish too or cant it dose not matter