So Virginia bans O-Care

[mrsleeve]

that the bulk of us citizens are not responsible enough to choose between buying a 11billion inch tv and caring for themselves.

I give you the epidemic of Credit card debt and the Sub prime mortgage fiasco. And all walks of consumer debt spiraling outta control beyond what one can afford, No not every one but you get the point

Or that national helath care wouldbe slow, or that every american does not deserve health care.

because every american does

Look at every other nation that has a National care its slow inefficient and crazy expensive. Just like every other aspect of any program or policy that any GOVT anywhere runs. Go read hallens posts again hes better at explaining this than I am (well I am too lazy to type that much too) .

How do you have a right to a service that is provided and not pay for it????

You are confusing your fundamental right to Life, with services to prolong it. Now I dont want to see anyone turned away for care just cuz they are poor. I dont want too see anyone that can be treated go with out, I am not heartless or compassionless. I want to see the system tweeked to make it more affordable for those that dont have the means to cover the bills as easily as I and others can. Like has been said many times over in this thread we dont have any issues with reform, or making the system better.

We have issues with this package that now includes education reform and all kinds of other shit. We have issues with the fact that this dose nothing to bring the costs down, or really help those that need it now or ever. Why is it that they have to start to tax us now to pay for it but no spending on any care what so ever for something like 4 years??? Let put it this way thats 10 years of taxing for 6 years of spending, thats not sustainable nor cost effective and efficient.

It infact will penalize me to the tune of 40% of what I am paying now with a tax on our plans that will be passed on to me and raise my monthly out lay directly and indirectly an additional 530 bucks a month and bring the total to 1860 a month (this dose not include all the other taxes that will be used to siphon funds outta the taxpayers and everyones pockets to pay as for it as well). Why do I have to pay that?? just because I have good H.I. that I work very hard to keep and pay for, in case something happens to me or the little woman. That = nothing more than theft and redistribution and that is wrong.

[BlueBMW]

So, someone born with talent is in debt to those without? Essentially a slave to the more retarded masses? The guy with two arms in a civilization of one armed people owes everyone that extra arm and should and/or must do what those with one hand cannot? That, my good sir, is Slavery in one of it's most devious, dangerous and evil forms.

I'll reiterate that this a personal view of mine and not one that I expect to be widely adopted. Its just a personal conviction I have. I feel that since I have been given more I should contribute more whenever and wherever I can. I have never believed that anyone should be a "slave" to anyone else.

I have a tendency to take a bit of an idealist view on things. I am hopeful that humans can someday move beyond our natural tendencies towards greed and self centered thinking.

I am also amazed that I didn't get torn to peices because of my last post. I felt like I was throwing a chunk of liberal meat out there and that the wolves would pounce! I appreciate those of you who have offered up what seem to be genuine well considered thoughts on these issues. Even if I disagree with you, I have great respect for anyone who has an opinion that is their own and not something they were told to think.

[ck_taft325is]

I'll reiterate that this a personal view of mine and not one that I expect to be widely adopted. Its just a personal conviction I have. I feel that since I have been given more I should contribute more whenever and wherever I can. I have never believed that anyone should be a "slave" to anyone else.

I have a tendency to take a bit of an idealist view on things. I am hopeful that humans can someday move beyond our natural tendencies towards greed and self centered thinking.

I am also amazed that I didn't get torn to peices because of my last post. I felt like I was throwing a chunk of liberal meat out there and that the wolves would pounce! I appreciate those of you who have offered up what seem to be genuine well considered thoughts on these issues. Even if I disagree with you, I have great respect for anyone who has an opinion that is their own and not something they were told to think.

There's been worse personal convictions. Speaking individually is much different than speaking in regards to a society. Greed is at the heart. Self interest as well. Both to preserve, further and often times as we have tendancy towards, to our detriment.

[dinanm3atl]

Good for the commonwealth. Wonder if my state is entertaining this idea. I am sure some way to further shove it down our throats will be created.

[trent]

that the bulk of us citizens are not responsible enough to choose between buying a 11billion inch tv and caring for themselves. Or that national helath care wouldbe slow, or that every american does not deserve health care.

because every american does

Wow you are a dumbfuck. Nobody deserves anything. I don't want to pay your way. Get a job and pay your own way.

Why do you want me to pay for you? Are you just extra lazy?

[Naplm00]

Wow you are a dumbfuck. Nobody deserves anything. I don't want to pay your way. Get a job and pay your own way.

Why do you want me to pay for you? Are you just extra lazy?

OK so if you dont deserve anything, then you wouldnt mind giving up everything right?

[z31maniac]

Why should he have to give up what he has worked for?

[Naplm00]

Well exactly, why should I loose my health care when I loose my job? I worked for it and paid into it.

[z31maniac]

Well exactly, why should I loose my health care when I loose my job? I worked for it and paid into it.

Because you didn't have a tight enough grip on it?

[chadthestampede]

Because you didn't have a tight enough grip on it?

pun intended?

[Naplm00]

I dint have a tight enuogh grip on my heathcare? LOL, i know what you mean.

example: construction worker is diagnosed with vertigo and can no longer work. So your saying this guy should have been prepared...or psychic?

[z31maniac]

I dint have a tight enuogh grip on my heathcare? LOL, i know what you mean.

example: construction worker is diagnosed with vertigo and can no longer work. So your saying this guy should have been prepared...or psychic?

Yes, let's build broad generalizations out of case studies.


Actually, I think the way insurance is purchased needs to be scrapped and go back to how it was pre-WWII. When companies didn't provide health insurance and you purchased it on your own. Then it was not company specific and you could take it with you.

Now break down the individual state regulations, and BAM you've got an insurance policy that is portable in the entire US. Now since YOU are buying your healthcare insurance, instead of your company, you purchased exactly what you would and would not like.

IE a catastrophy plan, for when a BIG expense happens. Not one that trys to prevent you from even paying for cheap prescriptions or routine checkups/doctor visits.

1. User based purchasing model.
2. Prescription costs.
3. Allow insurance to be purchased across state lines, making them portable.
4. Expand health savings accounts.
5. Tort reform.

These are the first steps I want to see happen.

For example, when I was a contractor my vision/health/dental cost me $100 a month with BCBS. Now through my company I pay $100 month + whatever they are paying (most likely $250-300) and my insurance isn't that much better. It's definitely not 4x better.

The main difference I've noticed is obviously no maternity care when I was a contractor, and I had a lifetime benefit limit of $3 million I think with BCBS policy.

[Naplm00]

I agree, lower health care costs are needed to make ANY plan work. Even if it stays as is...the system is so fucked by costs

[z31maniac]

Like we have all been saying, we aren't against reform, we are against what is currently being proposed by the Dems.

There are numerous articles saying premiums will go up, cost companies more money, etc.

Raising taxes and increasing gov't involvement in our lives is not the way to prosperity.

[ACMF74]

so does this mean my premiums will go up because I will have to pay for the unemployed, illegal and just plain lazy fuks in this country????

this whole plan sux moose cock