Obama on FOX News at 6PM EST....

[E30 Cabrio]

Obama taxes tanning booths.

[mar1t1me]

...but it's not the government's job (in fact, it's against the Constitution) to regulate who can have kids.

I agree that it's not the government's job, however, the government is fully capable of acts that are disincentive of unwanted pregnancy. Perhaps women who reach a certain age without becoming pregnant could be offered educational vouchers, or housing vouchers or some other form of assistance that would be better for the people and state than supporting more babies born to dumb people.

Regardless of how level we want the playing field, anti-abortion laws really only affect the poor people. There are many precedents that indicate that wealthy people have always and will continue to obtain abortions when they feel the need. And they never call it an abortion- it's a D&C.

The issue of abortion is a distraction used by the Religious Right to create a black or white reaction to a politician. They tar and feather any politician who mentions being pro-choice, which is not the same as pro-abortion, though they'd like you to think it is.

It's potently clear to me, given the varied types of people I work with, that abstinence-only education is a complete joke. I hear men talk about how unprotected anal sex with their girlfriends is OK because it not "sex" and they can't get pregnant. You hear a lot of crazy shit like that on a ship.

[z31maniac]

Interesting direction this thread has gone, I don't want kids, period.

[mar1t1me]

Obama taxes tanning booths.

Maybe Boehner will step up with legislation to protect the people's right to give themselves wrinkles and skin cancer. He is certainly a fan of the perma-tan!

[pureaudio]

The issue of abortion is a distraction used by the Religious Right to create a black or white reaction to a politician. They tar and feather any politician who mentions being pro-choice, which is not the same as pro-abortion, though they'd like you to think it is.

What does the issue of abortion have anything to do with religion? It is a human rights issue, when a life is created that life has rights. The right to live being a big one. You would go to jail for beating your 1 year old but when that child is still in the womb it is ok to end their life? People like you love to blame religion for your own selfish views but that isn't the case. The issue of abortion is not used to create an image of a politician, by choosing life or death they create their own image.

[papalcacan]

full load of shit. Obamaaaaaaaaaa

[HarryPotter]

Maybe Boehner will step up with legislation to protect the people's right to give themselves wrinkles and skin cancer. He is certainly a fan of the perma-tan!

That's not the point jack off, do you not see what this means? They are going to tax whatever they DEEM unhealthy. So almost everything you do is unhealthy for you in some way so fucking tax the fuck out of everything!

[mar1t1me]

What does the issue of abortion have anything to do with religion? It is a human rights issue, when a life is created that life has rights.

OK. I'll play- who granted these "rights"? Who enforces them? What happens to people who don't uphold them? Why does a fetus have rights? I'm not asking rhetorically-I really want to know why you believe that the right to life begins at conception.

People like you love to blame religion for your own selfish views but that isn't the case. The issue of abortion is not used to create an image of a politician, by choosing life or death they create their own image.

Selfish? How so? Were I in charge of the World, abortion would be cheap, safe, and unbelievably rare. But as we, especially in America, devolve into a relatively uneducated society full of misconceptions and outright disinformation about sex propagated by various religions, we will see more unwanted pregnancies and hence, more unwanted children. Who will care for them? The people who demand these children be born, but who protest against spending tax money help to clothe and house and feed these children are the selfish ones. Same goes for the ones that will happily pay for new jails to be built, but protest when they are asked to vote for a school tax levy.

[pureaudio]

OK. I'll play- who granted these "rights"? Who enforces them? What happens to people who don't uphold them? Why does a fetus have rights? I'm not asking rhetorically-I really want to know why you believe that the right to life begins at conception.

I guess it all depends on if you view a fetus as a human, which I do and obviously, you don't. With that said, humans have rights. Our constitution enforces our rights and the law prosecutes people who violate them but I think you already know how that works.

Selfish? How so? Were I in charge of the World, abortion would be cheap, safe, and unbelievably rare. But as we, especially in America, devolve into a relatively uneducated society full of misconceptions and outright disinformation about sex propagated by various religions, we will see more unwanted pregnancies and hence, more unwanted children. Who will care for them? The people who demand these children be born, but who protest against spending tax money help to clothe and house and feed these children are the selfish ones. Same goes for the ones that will happily pay for new jails to be built, but protest when they are asked to vote for a school tax levy.

Who are these people you are talking about? What religions are causing unwanted pregnancies? I'm not aware of a single person who protests spending tax money to help feed, cloth and shelter children from shitty parents, it is the shitty parents most don't want to support. I'm not sure I know anyone who happily pays for new jails and votes against school taxes for schools. I know plenty of people who voted against the last item on the ballot in CA that was going to take loans out for schools but that is because reform is needed in public education, not more money to bleed out from wasteful spending.

You very clearly have an agenda against anything religious or religion affiliated. Not everyone who has a different view than yours is religious. Some may be sure, but it doesn't mean they have that viewpoint because of being religious.

I am pretty sure you were trying to say something about teaching abstinence is the disinformation propagated by various religions in there. Teaching abstinence to kids so they won't have early, unwanted pregnancies is not disinformation, it is the only way to ensure you do not have an unwanted pregnancy. This is not religious, this is just the way it is. People may have different reasons for wanting kids to be abstinent but that is their own issue, the product of abstinence is still a 100% certainty you will not have a child. I have my own view on that and it is that the government should not be teaching kids they should be or shouldn't be having sex at all. It is not their business, sex ed should be the science of what happens in that process. They should teach what the possible things that can happen when you have sex and what methods you can use to protect yourself which includes abstinence. Right now depending on which program or teacher you have, you get a view point pushed onto you and in the public education field that is wrong.

[mar1t1me]

I guess it all depends on if you view a fetus as a human, which I do and obviously, you don't.

Never said it. You infer.

With that said, humans have rights. Our constitution enforces our rights and the law prosecutes people who violate them but I think you already know how that works.

You didn't answer the question. Why do humans have rights? I really want to know where you think from where that idea comes. I'm just curious as to your viewpoint.

Who are these people you are talking about? What religions are causing unwanted pregnancies?

Are you familiar with Catholicism? ALL forms of birth control are forbidden except the highly unreliable "rhythm method". Abortion is also forbidden.

That's but one example. How many would you like?:)

I'm not aware of a single person who protests spending tax money to help feed, cloth and shelter children from shitty parents, it is the shitty parents most don't want to support.

I emphasized that part for a reason-how do you separate the shitty parent from the child without violating the shitty parent's rights?

I'm not sure I know anyone who happily pays for new jails and votes against school taxes for schools.

Well, there's this opinion piece. I had a few links to a Texas vote, and in Ohio, voters put down several school levies but voted for jail improvements-I'll see if I can dig 'em up...

You very clearly have an agenda against anything religious or religion affiliated.

Religion is mythology. We don't believe in Greek Gods, or Norse Gods or Roman Gods anymore. Why should believe in anyone else's version of the invisible man in the sky? Anyway, I digress....

I am pretty sure you were trying to say something about teaching abstinence is the disinformation propagated by various religions in there.

Yes. It does not work. And to say it isn't religious based is wrong in and of itself! Bush enacted it to curry favor with the church voters.

Mississippi used Federal Abstinence Only funding during a 2009 teen abstinence summit that featured religious themes and overtly Christian messages, including a lengthy presentation about the Ten Commandments by Judge John N. Hudson. Judge Hudson told the audience, ‘Abstain, God says, from promiscuous sex – thou shall not commit adultery. …Why would He tell us not to do it? He's not. He's telling us that He created this great and wonderful gift for a special and unique committed relationship that is to last forever.’ The program also included several prayers and a performance to gospel songs by the Pilgrim Rest Mime Ministry.”

You say it isn't "faith based" AKA religious? Whatever....And since you have a stated belief in human rights, check this out. And you might want to Google "Silver Ring Thing". It is a Christian based abstinence program that received more than $1.1 million of federal funding to advance an agenda based on a relationship with Christ Jesus.

I'm all about personal accountability, but telling hormone ridden teens to "not fuck" is like telling drivers to "not speed". It only works in a dream world. We should be teaching responsibility and consequences in the now, not the afterlife...

Anyway, I agree that it's not the government's business. I also agree it should be science-based, not based on mysterious edicts from the Dark Ages.;)

[Massive Lee]

A century ago, women had kids at 15 and died at 35. That was the natural life cycle. It followed the hormonal progression. Now, there is a dephasing between the hormonal cycle and the society with people living twice as long. Who's to blame? So, no wonder women get abortions at 16 as they don't fit anymore... The Catholic church asking people not to obey their hormones is a joke. Priest have the right to rape kids though...

[pureaudio]

Yes. It does not work. And to say it isn't religious based is wrong in and of itself! Bush enacted it to curry favor with the church voters.

Mississippi used Federal Abstinence Only funding during a 2009 teen abstinence summit that featured religious themes and overtly Christian messages, including a lengthy presentation about the Ten Commandments by Judge John N. Hudson. Judge Hudson told the audience, ‘Abstain, God says, from promiscuous sex – thou shall not commit adultery. …Why would He tell us not to do it? He's not. He's telling us that He created this great and wonderful gift for a special and unique committed relationship that is to last forever.’ The program also included several prayers and a performance to gospel songs by the Pilgrim Rest Mime Ministry.”

You say it isn't "faith based" AKA religious? Whatever....And since you have a stated belief in human rights, check this out. And you might want to Google "Silver Ring Thing". It is a Christian based abstinence program that received more than $1.1 million of federal funding to advance an agenda based on a relationship with Christ Jesus.

People may have different reasons for wanting kids to be abstinent but that is their own issue, the product of abstinence is still a 100% certainty you will not have a child.

I never said it wasn't a faith based agenda for some people but if you don't want kids to have unwanted pregnancies there is only 1 real way and that is to not have sex. Kids need to know this just as much as they need to know that a condom is available but not 100%. They then make the choice as to which they want to do. Also, teaching abstinence does not have to teach anything about waiting til marriage for sex, that is also an agenda that falls in the hands of the parents if they choose, not the governments (shouldn't be the governments I should say). I don't deny that those programs exist but if you want to talk about mis-spending on the governments side then were gonna need another thread because this one isn't big enough.

I am almost certain that the Catholic church allows birth control now but I guess I could be wrong. I know a few Catholics that believe in the use of birth control but maybe they are just bad Catholics, I don't know. There are many things I disagree with the Catholic Church on though but that is a different subject.

As far as humans having rights I'm not really sure what you are trying to argue. We live in America which grants us certain rights that can not be taken away. I believe it should be extended to children in the womb.

[E30 Cabrio]

A century ago, women had kids at 15 and died at 35. That was the natural life cycle. It followed the hormonal progression. Now, there is a dephasing between the hormonal cycle and the society with people living twice as long. Who's to blame? So, no wonder women get abortions at 16 as they don't fit anymore... The Catholic church asking people not to obey their hormones is a joke. Priest have the right to rape kids though...

Your idiocy never ceases to amaze.

[Farbin Kaiber]

It's great seeing a bunch of males on a car forum debating a woman's right to choose.

I'm waiting for Kate, e30prideTN, Peerless' wife, e30fools*wife, The chick with the black baur on the east coast, etc. to chime in on this topic in this thread, I think THEY are the ones that should have a say in it.

[kronus]

It's great seeing a bunch of males on a car forum debating a woman's right to choose.

I'm waiting for Kate, e30prideTN, Peerless' wife, e30fools*wife, The chick with the black baur on the east coast, etc. to chime in on this topic in this thread, I think THEY are the ones that should have a say in it.

Good point, and also way to keep a mental list of all the women present across two e30 forums :p

you missed a few