Tough questions of a bullshit ticket! (update post 102)

[IRON-E]

My buddy and I, decided to do a small shoot of my car and we chose the train track area in DTLA.
While we were there, we met a catalog model and her camera crew, who were also using the tracks as their backdrop.

1.5 hours later 2 Union Pacific police SUVs roll down in front of my car. One of the cops asked me and my friend to provide our D/L and if any of us had any warrants or were on perole or probation .......I'm like WTF? He continues by heading to his car with our licenses and starts to write what looks to us like citations?

Now, this is where it gets completely awkwards., the whole time this is going on, his partner is over where the model's camare crew is and is chatting them up. He never asked those people for their ID or anything else (mind you, those people are white and we are hispanic). My buddy and I never crossed the train tracks but the other people there did. That camera crew gathered up their camera equipment and left without any tickets but my buddy and I are still there waiting to see what is going to be dished out to us.
The cop, comes back out of his car and asked me and my friend to come over towards the hood of,the SUV, then proceeds to tell us that we were trespassing R/R private property and that was the reason for our ticket. I was furious as fuck inside as he asks me to sign the ticket but I contained my cool. I don't want to sign the ticket but I'm still battleing my thoughts/demons in my head whether I should sign or not. Before I signed, I asked him where the posted signs to such violation were? He said this (the railroad has millions of miles across the country and it's known that it's off limits as private property). My friend steps in and almost asks a question and the 2nd cop which is now next to us tells my buddy to step back as he puts his hand on his holster and steps back as if he's getting ready to shoot one of us........ WTF?
The cop that is giving us the ticket to sign says to me, you can do this the easy way or the hard way. Sign or I can have your car towed right now! (great, just what I needed)

I may look a little rough around the edges when you meet me but I don't have any gang tattoos, bald/shaved head, or drive a stereotype of a car that most gang members would and I was polite the whole time (I've learned my lesson before) never lost respect for the cops, even though I wanted to fuck them waffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffless up royaly.

Anyways, I checked the violation code and it's valid citation (369i penal code) there goes a $1000 dollars "MISDIMEANER" too., I think I might need to lawyer up for this one, what do you think should be my next step?

[Dozyproductions]

what. the. fuck. Yeah, before doing anything, a lawyer would be a good course of action.

[mcr_driver]

Seek some sort of free legal counsel if possible.

I wonder did if you find out what company that model was shooting for? See if they had a permit to take photo's there or were they trespassing as well. Also if you do know if they were or weren't and know what company they were shooting for you can use that as evidence for your case. If they weren't cited for the same offense how come you were.

[kalib0y]

yeah, seek legal counsel and see if you can get the catalog model or her crew to be your witness if possible if they saw any of it

[z31maniac]

Any chance the model and professional crew had permission to be there? Maybe they called and said these scruffy guys were hanging around eyeing the model?

I'm not really sure how you could fight it, but if you weren't causing problems and messing stuff up, I don't see why it had to go any farther than "Hey guys, you're trespassing and need to gather up your stuff and leave, or else I'll give you a ticket. Got it?"

I don't know why everyone can't just relax nowadays, everything has to be blown out of proportion.

[IminDiegoTriick]

fuck em

[dvck]

other crew was not pro and had no permission whatsoever, i can 99.9% guarantee that.

i may post photos relevant to this later, so you all have a clearer picture.

if anything they were way beyond our trespassing, by hanging out on the wall, and on a broken part of the fence that opened to the LA river banks, where we were still on the parking lot at the back of a graphics shop.

[HiTheNameIsBJ]

I Like Turtles

[brainspo0n]

yeah a lawyer would be cool if you can afford one, but it sounds like this will get thrown out easily

unless of course the judge is as big a bigot as the cops were

[Ryan Stewart]

other crew was not pro and had no permission whatsoever, i can 99.9% guarantee that.

i may post photos relevant to this later, so you all have a clearer picture.

if anything they were way beyond our trespassing, by hanging out on the wall, and on a broken part of the fence that opened to the LA river banks, where we were still on the parking lot at the back of a graphics shop.

But you cant 100% prove that.

If you were not on RR property then fight the ticket. They could just be useless pigs like most, it should be an easy beat.

[Earendil]

Anyways, I checked the violation code and it's valid citation (369i penal code) there goes a $1000 dollars "MISDIMEANER" too., I think I might need to lawyer up for this one, what do you think should be my next step?

Okay, it's not as bad as it seems. At least if you are being honest with the story. Here is why:

A common mistake is to think that Cops are in charge of justice. No, they are in charge of sending people to be judged. This is why you can't talk a Cop out of giving a ticket, and why it's usually a bad idea to try. However, there is in fact someone that IS in charge of judging your actions, they call them Judges :)

I have no doubt that if you go to court and tell them that exact story that the Judge will toss it out of court and tell you to be more careful.

I once had an anal cop pull me over at 2am for passing in a no passing zone. No way to talk him out of it, he was there to catch people breaking the law, regardless of circumstances. I went in front of the judge and told him the circumstances:
They have double lined the road a day before. I've lived on that road my entire life. The car I passed was doing 10mph under. It was 2am without a car or soul on the road, and I passed as I've done my entire life, in a safe manner. The judge didn't just defer it, he threw it out.

Laws are generally written to be wide and cast a wide net. Cops will sometimes use their discretion giving tickets, however technically that isn't their job. They are supposed to send before the judge anyone breaking the law, and the Judge decides if you warrant a penalty for your actions. Some cops make good use of that discretion, others do not. I would say that you met a cop without discretion.

If I were you, I would calmly stand before a judge and tell him the story. Try not to say anything too disparaging about the officers. Tell the judge you understand that they were doing their job, but that you were completely unaware of what you were doing. You saw a safe opportunity to take some photographs, saw others doing the same, saw no signs, and thought nothing of it. Tell the Judge you have a clean record and think that a warning would be appropriate, and that now that you know better, you won't trespass again.

Of course, if you have a lawyer friend willing to speak for you for less than $1000, you could go that route.

[mkcman17]

maybe if cops didnt pull this shit all the time the general public wouldnt have lost respect for law enforcement. I'm constantly profiled and hastled in my minitruck, but as soon as they see I'm a white boy I have no issues. When said truck was stolen, literally no one gave a rat's ass. They even laughed at me for making a big deal about a pos truck.

If you have the energy, please dont bend over and pay...go get consulted, make them accountable.

[Balleristic31]

Hopefully you guys get this resolved. That's ridiculous that the cop even thought about touching his gun during this whole thing.

It will prob get tossed

[Earendil]

Hopefully you guys get this resolved. That's ridiculous that the cop even thought about touching his gun during this whole thing.

It will prob get tossed

Actually, it isn't :\

I believe touching is exactly what they should do (and no more) if someone makes a potentially threatening action towards them. There needs to be a very quick understanding between officer and citizen as to the nature of the relationship. You don't want an officer to let you get by with things that makes them nervous. You don't want to be dealing with a nervous cop. This is why when you get pulled over you are advised to put your hands on the steering wheel in plane view of the approaching officer. It sets them more at ease.

I had a friend get pulled over once on a busy freeway. It was his first time being pulled over, and he hadn't paid attention in Drivers Ed. Once his car and the officers car were stopped, he got out of his car for a friendly chat, walking towards the officers car. The officer got out of his car and yelled something at him. My friend, unable to hear clearly, walked closer so that he could hear. The officer then pulled his gun out. The message was clear at that point, do not walk closer.

I am rather biased, as all the questionable cops I've interacted with I've had judges basically tell them to STFU. All the good cops I know are some of the coolest level headed, helpful, and gentle people I know, and that's the majority.

The two that the OP dealt with (or at least the one guy) was being a dick. A judge should take care of that quickly.

I would never want to be a cop. Not because I don't think I'd do a good job, but because I would not want to approach every citizen wondering if this will be the person that will attack me with a knife/gun/other weapon.

The partner of an officer I know once had a lady that they were questioning punch his friend in the chest with nails (the carpentry type) between her knuckles. Or perhaps it was some sort of spiked set of brass knuckles. Turns out the lady done something wrong and she thought they were after her

[StereoInstaller1]

Look man, quit being Hispanic. Be white instead, we get away with WAY more shit.

Seriously though, this shit just enrages me. They let the white boys do whatever, but the one dumb enough to be born with more pigmentation get fucked with. I have seen it personally, many times...in fact, I have seen shit I did get blamed on someone with darker skin when I was there saying I did it!

OK, better be careful I don't get into a rant. How the fuck anyone thinks anyone lesser OR superior due to color of the skin or the culture they were born in. Different, yes, all damn day, but not "better". Fuck that, embarrasses me to be white sometimes.

Dude, get a lawyer. Not for the ticket, but so you can sue the railroad for harassing you.

It is called racism, and it is against the law.

Best of luck though. If you start a "I need to hire a lawyer fund", do it. I will help what I can.

Luke