"Snapshot" from Progressive....

[CabrioPunk]

George you are absolutely right. Thank you.

[M-technik-3]

I think that it is hilarious that you are all making a fuss and crying "BIG BROTHER" about this thing. All it records is vehicle speed, time, distance driven (calculated from time/speed data) and frequency of "hard" braking. It is not watching where you are.

This device does not know *where* you drive.

It doesn't know what the speed limit is or if you are exceeding it.

They will not use ANY data from this device to determine your insurance rate if you cancel... so using this will not raise your rates.

They cannot use data from the device to resolve a claim unless you give them permission. So this device can help you in a claim, but it cannot hurt you.

You have it on your car for 30 days and then remove it. It isn't on there perpetually.


So.... can someone tell me what the big fuss is about? If my insurance company offered this, I would do it. I literally see absolutely nothing wrong with this.

And to those who think this is just the first step towards this being a law-mandated thing: who cares? If these were installed on every person's car, the rates that auto insurers charge would be MUCH more fair than they are presently. Think about it... aside from personal history, premiums are based on statistics -- it's one big generalization clusterfuck. They lump you together with other people "like" you and assume that you drive how they do. So a young male that drives 3 miles to and from work and is actually a good, defensive driver gets charged the same as the terrible, aggressive ass hole that is on the road 100 miles a day. That's not fair, right? Well, if the insurance company had actual data about each person's driving, they would charge premiums accordingly. And realistically, you can tell a TON about a person's risk of collision with very simple data (mileage/time of day and a two-axis accelerometer would paint a pretty damn good picture).


So once again, what's the big deal?

That's correct. I would just rather not consent to insurance companies monitoring HOW I drive my automobile.

[TwoJ's]

That's correct. I would just rather not consent to insurance companies monitoring HOW I drive my automobile.

Fair enough. Are you just a terrible driver? Street racer?

[Jaxx_]

Fair enough. Are you just a terrible driver? Street racer?

I think an insurance company might consider me an aggressive driver, but not at any time that could hurt others. I speed, but only when I think it's reasonable. Other times, I have issues doing the speed limit because of the road and externalities(even outside of road conditions).

I know others who are "safer" on the road but it's difficult riding with them because of the binary inputs that they have on the wheel and pedals. It's the same concept as someone doing 50mph on the highway, sure the speed is slower, but that doesn't make it safer.

[TwoJ's]

I think an insurance company might consider me an aggressive driver, but not at any time that could hurt others. I speed, but only when I think it's reasonable. Other times, I have issues doing the speed limit because of the road and externalities(even outside of road conditions).

I know others who are "safer" on the road but it's difficult riding with them because of the binary inputs that they have on the wheel and pedals. It's the same concept as someone doing 50mph on the highway, sure the speed is slower, but that doesn't make it safer.

Like I said, the thing has no idea whether or not you are speeding. I am fully aware that a person can safely exceed the speed limit. It takes data about what times you are on the road, how far you drive and whether or not you are hard on the brakes and with what frequency. I think that even lateral acceleration data from an accelerometer to show how hard a person takes corners would be good too. I don't care how good of a driver you are... you are much more likely to be in a collision if you are hauling ass around corners and jamming on the brakes all of the time. That's all that this device would be able to infer.

[ALYKZANDYR]

Two J's,

Its just that having a entity other than you monitor what you are doing with your car, is what bothers me and many of the people here.

If you doing mind having your driving habits spied on to save a few bucks than go ahead sign up for the black box.

Now let me ask you this, lets say that the insurance company was mandating that all policy holders must install the black box in their car, with no decrease in premium costs, and then after the 30 days if you driving was normal you get to keep paying the same premium, but if you were driving aggressively or drivign all the time your rates would increase.

How would still be in support of the black box program?

Because if this black box thing catches on in the industry that is what will or can happen, it will be used not to offer cost savings, but to punish policy holders for aggressive and high mileage driving.

[TwoJ's]

Two J's,

Its just that having a entity other than you monitor what you are doing with your car, is what bothers me and many of the people here.

If you doing mind having your driving habits spied on to save a few bucks than go ahead sign up for the black box.

Now let me ask you this, lets say that the insurance company was mandating that all policy holders must install the black box in their car, with no decrease in premium costs, and then after the 30 days if you driving was normal you get to keep paying the same premium, but if you were driving aggressively or drivign all the time your rates would increase.

How would still be in support of the black box program?

Because if this black box thing catches on in the industry that is what will or can happen, it will be used not to offer cost savings, but to punish policy holders for aggressive and high mileage driving.

It is hilarious that you are so paranoid and weird that you think they are "spying" on you because people voluntarily let them collect data like TIME, SPEED and DISTANCE. No one is out to get you, you can relax!!



You don't understand how they determine insurance premiums. That is not what "will or can happen". They will eventually use data to better understand each individual policy holder rather than generalizing. The people who drive like douche bags will have insurance premiums to reflect that, people that drive like adults will also be charged accordingly.

And saying that every insurance company will do this is 5 years is baseless and false as well. The market will determine whether or not a company collects user specific data, and service heavy companies like State Farm will not alienate their policy holders.

[Raxe]

Edit: no incriminating information here!