190e, the new "e30"?

[OniKyan]

They're huge with poor visibility. Definitely nothing like an E30.

BMW > MB, each and every time.

[FLYNAVY]

They're huge with poor visibility. Definitely nothing like an E30.

Don't know if I would really agree here. The visibility is quite comparable between my M3 and my w201, which in either case is far better than most modern cars. The rear deck is slightly higher in the 201, and the C pillar is maybe slightly larger, but not noticeably so. As for size, a side by side comparison shows them to be almost the same. The 201 feels heavier, but out of the box, it is less powerful than it's e30 counterparts, and also has in most cases, the most terrible auto box ever known to man. Notable exception being the 16v, which has a satisfactory manual, though even that could use a lot of improvement. I DO agree that e30 > w201 in most respects, aside from the 201 just being more comfortable to drive long distances in. It takes a lot more modding to make a w201 into a real driver's car, than it does for a base model e30.

[FeatherChini]

This was going to be my first car. This car is hella dope tho. Even though its Mercedes, who I hate, its a nice ride...

Its cool because it has that "box" body.

[Kvasi]

Its like saying water is the new beer. They are both liquid, and thats about it..

[Emre]

They're huge...

That's a ridiculous statement. I have one of each and the external dimensions are almost identical. The difference is the W201 has a slightly larger passenger compartment, so it feels a bit roomier inside. But it's hardly any bigger at all.

...with poor visibility.

Again, this is just silly. Visibility is about the same as an E30 or E28. Far better than any modern car.

Definitely nothing like an E30.

If you've actually driven a W201 (based on your post, it sounds like you never have) you'd probably feel that these two cars are more alike than they are different. Most 190E's you find these days are going to be beat to shit with worn-out stock parts. Obviously, if you compare that to an enthusiast-owned E30 (with upgraded springs/shocks, bigger wheels, sticky tires, urethane bushings, and various other performance mods), you'd think that the E30 was in a different league. You can't put a clapped-out commuter's car up against a modded enthusiast's car; you have to compare like-for-like.

There's far less aftermarket support for the 190E and most of the owners are cruisers, not track nuts. So, most W201's you'll come across are going to be running worn-out bushings, soft springs, crappy all-season tires, and worn steering boxes. If you can find one that's been cared for by an enthusiast, I'm sure you'd have a much different opinion. For example, here's mine:

[Kershaw]

looks very nice!

[mr.vang]

tell me more, i might consider one as my next DD

[whterice]

Dam this thread for making me look at used car sites looking for one again.

[magoo_lc1]

I owned a 92 way back when. I bought it for a DD and it served that purpose very well. I was big car audio guy and it served me well for putting good stuff in it for its tank like build quality.

[Airborneinfantry11]

I have a old 70's 300d from Europe with a 5 speed if anybody is interested

[DTM190]

Loved mine, handled way better than any E30 I have ever owned.



Still regret swapping it for the graphite E30 and wish I had stuck the 1uz into the 190e instead.

[OniKyan]

Have driven one, it was an awful experience.

Although, this.

Obviously, if you compare that to an enthusiast-owned E30 (with upgraded springs/shocks, bigger wheels, sticky tires, urethane bushings, and various other performance mods), you'd think that the E30 was in a different league. You can't put a clapped-out commuter's car up against a modded enthusiast's car; you have to compare like-for-like.

[Emre]

There's a ton of rubber in the W201 suspension, especially at the rear where you've got 4 subframe bushings and 2 bushings on each end of the multi links (3 per side). So, 16 rubber bushings in the rear suspension alone...all of which will be rotten by now.



It's the same story up front. Plus, there's the steering box that needs periodic adjustment and a steering damper that tends to go bad. There are 3 tie rods (rather than the 2 you have with a rack-and-pinion) and people tend to forget about the one in the center.

It's a big (and expensive) job to replace them all, and most 190E owners don't bother. With soft springs and gentle highway use, the car will be OK. But the handling is shockingly poor when all that stuff is worn out, as it will be on a 25-year-old car.

Drive one that's been well-maintained and you'll be amazed. I still remember the first time I drove a properly sorted 16v. Coming from a fully track-prepped E30, I was shocked at how solid the car felt. I remember telling the owner it felt just like my Lancer Evo VIII, only with less power.

[OniKyan]

There's a ton of rubber in the W201 suspension, especially at the rear where you've got 4 subframe bushings and 2 bushings on each end of the multi links (3 per side). So, 16 rubber bushings in the rear suspension alone...all of which will be rotten by now.

It's the same story up front. Plus, there's the steering box that needs periodic adjustment and a steering damper that tends to go bad. There are 3 tie rods (rather than the 2 you have with a rack-and-pinion) and people tend to forget about the one in the center.

It's a big (and expensive) job to replace them all, and most 190E owners don't bother. With soft springs and gentle highway use, the car will be OK. But the handling is shockingly poor when all that stuff is worn out, as it will be on a 25-year-old car.

Drive one that's been well-maintained and you'll be amazed. I still remember the first time I drove a properly sorted 16v. Coming from a fully track-prepped E30, I was shocked at how solid the car felt. I remember telling the owner it felt just like my Lancer Evo VIII, only with less power.

That's a lot of bushes, sounds like a PITA to keep well maintained.

Pretty sure the one I drove was a 2.3, not a 16V Cosworth though. Automatic makes them a complete slug and finding a manual in Australia is a difficult task.

I think my main problem with visibility was the rear headrests and C pillar.

[DTM190]

Everyone complains about the autos being slugs because they start in 2nd gear lol.
A lot of the older Mercs do.

If you put the gear selector in the 2 position from a standing start it will start in 1st gear and take off a lot better. When you want to change from 1-2 move the selector from 2-3-2 and now it will hold second gear.