If there was a draft would you go?

[91_tragedy]

with all things considered is there was one and you were called, you would have to go, but it probably will never come to that

[Jscotty]

with all things considered is there was one and you were called, you would have to go, but it probably will never come to that

Actually you wouldn't have to go. We have a volunteer army and you can actually refuse to go to war if drafted. Typically if you refuse to register for the draft or you refuse to report for duty if called up, the penalty is jail time and/or a fine. After that you can go on your merry way.

And then there are other ways to get out of going to war which is commonly referred to as "draft dodging" where you find a way to stay in a foreign country or you obtain employment in a federal agency that does not permit their employees to go into combat or if you have a rich uncle who knows a congressman, then you can can avoid going to war by this method also.

[Ablice]

All I can say to that is grow a 0000 ---- I believe this is a " Blunt Quote " ???

Wow we can have a real good discussion here. No it's not a Blunt quote. Don't come whining that I'm a cheapstake or pantsy when you won't even consider the reverse case of you and me. If you fit the AR, great. I wish I did, I like the looks of that platform. But the layout everything once I hold it is just not right for me.

Seems you are not a very amicable person.

Agreed but when are you going to need a subgun in a war ????

For instances like we just mentioned - cladestine operations, suppression, compact size, CQC (if they're not wearing body armor that resists pistol rounds) and other places. Good guns. I don't decide what guns for what instances when I'm not even there.

I never said I didnt want a pistol but having a $1000 sig is a waste when the M9 WILL DO THE SAME JOB !!!

Nope. M9 does not equal SIG. Very different pistols. Come back when you have reasons that are reasonable such that proves the M9 is superior in every possible way to the SIG. We'll use the P226 for this — 9mm, double stack, full size pistol.

THANK GOD !! Because it is a bigger rifle than you are a man !!!!

How do you know? You don't even know what I look like or my profile. That's like saying "Thank goodness you've never raced F1 cars, can't drive that fast"

Way to go.

Actually you wouldn't have to go. We have a volunteer army and you can actually refuse to go to war if drafted. Typically if you refuse to register for the draft or you refuse to report for duty if called up, the penalty is jail time and/or a fine. After that you can go on your merry way.

And then there are other ways to get out of going to war which is commonly referred to as "draft dodging" where you find a way to stay in a foreign country or you obtain employment in a federal agency that does not permit their employees to go into combat or if you have a rich uncle who knows a congressman, then you can can avoid going to war by this method also.

If called up by draft I'm checking in, but they will have to deal with my weapon preferences. It's like if you get called into the...let's say, graphics section of government, let's pretend that it exists. There they give you PCs when you'd mcuh rather have a MAC, or visa versa.



I like being ganged up upon for not liking the AR or the M9. Except that

<<<<<< doesn't take that crap.

[atomic]

Nope. M9 does not equal SIG. Very different pistols. Come back when you have reasons that are reasonable such that proves the M9 is superior in every possible way to the SIG. We'll use the P226 for this — 9mm, double stack, full size pistol.

The M9 will shoot the same as a Sig P226 will ,both will kill and both will work the same. The Sig is not going to make you shoot better at all. If the M9 does not fit then you have to adapt to it since that is what they give you. You have NO choice in this matter at all !!! They military is not going to pony up for sig's that are twice as much as the M9 when it passes all of their requirements in realibility and safety... and can be done for half the price period.

Same goes for the AR/M16/M4 which were developed to be a lightweight dependable weapon designed for one thing which is to kill at great distances and was also developed to be versatile as well for different needs... Which can be adapted to be used in urban enviroments as well. And if you want to get serious about it that they can even be used as a pistol !!! Now who wouldnt want a full auto .223 rem pistol !!!!!!


The Barrett .50bmg is about 45" long and weighs easily 35-40lbs loaded !!!

[Jscotty]

If called up by draft I'm checking in, but they will have to deal with my weapon preferences.

If you earn some rank and tenure, then MAYBE you will be given a choice as to which weapon you would like to carry. And then also consider that by the time you get to that rank, you will no longer be on the front lines.
The military is a very structured and uniform organization. They do not al-la-carte the weapons and ammo.

Also know that in ANY job, (unless you are hired as a specialist, consultant, or a contractor) you are required to use the tools that they give you. Even in any government job- If they use PC's in that particular deparment and you tell them that you only work on Macs, then one of two things will happen. Either #1. You will be looking for another job or #2. you will be learning how to use a new computer.

[Ablice]

The M9 will shoot the same as a Sig P226 will ,both will kill and both will work the same. The Sig is not going to make you shoot better at all. If the M9 does not fit then you have to adapt to it since that is what they give you. You have NO choice in this matter at all !!! They military is not going to pony up for sig's that are twice as much as the M9 when it passes all of their requirements in realibility and safety... and can be done for half the price period.

The last time I held a SIG it fit me suprisingly well. I thought I was done with double stack pistols (Glock turnoff, M9 turn off, etc) but the SIG felt really good. I wonder how a good feeling pistol makes someone shoot the same as another pistol that feels like I'm holding a tree trunk.

You haven't heard when the SIG and the M9 went up against each other back in the 80's? The main reason for the M9 adoptance was because of price. Slightly cheaper. Poo. Read here please for who officially uses the SIG.

No choice in the matter? Alright, cool. Just don't come bitching when your recruitment levels are through the floor, you are upping bonuses and lowering recruitment standards. Great, now I get to hangout with more dirtbags. Instead of a 75,000 max college expediture perhaps we could spend 1500 of that and get a quality SIG, 500 more and an armful of spare mags (in case you loose some, feed lips get damaged beyond repair, etc etc) and we're in buisness, and while we're at it if you insist on giving me a .223 cal rifle gimme a HK 33e while you're at it, heck I won't use half of that 75,000 college dough. Slap a ACOG on there and I won't complain about my guns.

Same goes for the AR/M16/M4 which were developed to be a lightweight dependable weapon designed for one thing which is to kill at great distances and was also developed to be versatile as well for different needs... Which can be adapted to be used in urban enviroments as well. And if you want to get serious about it that they can even be used as a pistol !!! Now who wouldnt want a full auto .223 rem pistol !!!!!!

The Barrett .50bmg is about 45" long and weighs easily 35-40lbs loaded !!!

It was not intended to kill at great distances. That's what marksmanship rifles are for. It follows the definition of an assualt rifle: medium length rifle chambered in an intermediate cartridge with the capability of fully automatic fire. Assualt rifles are not sniper or combat marksmanship rifles, but they COULD be used for those purposes but their caliber and barrel lengths among other things are not designed for that.

Who wouldn't want a .223 FA gun? Seen those. I'll pass on one and get a Mini Uzi instead for a compact buzzgun. BTW those little incarnations are not pistols, since they are chambered in intermediate cartridges, and most pistols are not fully automatic, fully auto pistols like the G18c usually fall under the classification of machine pistols, which probably includes little wildcats like the Micro Uzi and MAC-12. I'm not a pro, there's lots of grey area and heated discussions about such classifications, so YMMV.

.50BMG rifle? Eh. What would I use it for? Sniping is not my thing.

If you earn some rank and tenure, then MAYBE you will be given a choice as to which weapon you would like to carry. And then also consider that by the time you get to that rank, you will no longer be on the front lines.
The military is a very structured and uniform organization. They do not al-la-carte the weapons and ammo.

Also know that in ANY job, (unless you are hired as a specialist, consultant, or a contractor) you are required to use the tools that they give you. Even in any government job- If they use PC's in that particular deparment and you tell them that you only work on Macs, then one of two things will happen. Either #1. You will be looking for another job or #2. you will be learning how to use a new computer.

If they do not wish to...*ahem* "cater" to my requirements they can surely deal without one man. They probably will throw me in the white walled resort rather than deal with my "problems".

If they draft you and give you a PC when you know nothing about PCs, only MACs, could you raise some rife about that? Stubbornness in militarys to adopt better technologies has been well documented...read up on the times when the armies of more sizeable nations continued to stick with muzzle loading rifles even when reliable lever action repeaters were coming about. Then they'd throw away the muzzle loaders of the war that just happened, then come another war and they frantically dig up the ones they just threw away, and order more muzzle loaders. Genius.

[atomic]

ABlice = Fanzotti

I have come to realize this through this conversation

[Ablice]

MMMmmkay.

I have no relation to him. But he's probably a nice chap.

[1991 318is]

If called up by draft I'm checking in, but they will have to deal with my weapon preferences. It's like if you get called into the...let's say, graphics section of government, let's pretend that it exists. There they give you PCs when you'd mcuh rather have a MAC, or visa versa.
I like being ganged up upon for not liking the AR or the M9. Except that <<<<<< doesn't take that crap.

If you don't like your gun in the army, they shove it up your ass. It's like saying you don't look good in a uniform. The army can be quite brutal in dealing with non-conformity.

[lucky7]

Voltaire:

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it

That being said, fuck yes i would be there.

that may be the best quote ive ever heard. so you're all going to read it again.

[mitch500]

fuck no! canada ftw. jk, yeah i would go to .

[Jscotty]

ABlice = Fanzotti

I have come to realize this through this conversation

Yeah.. I picked up on that a bit earlier myself.

[Ablice]

If you don't like your gun in the army, they shove it up your ass. It's like saying you don't look good in a uniform. The army can be quite brutal in dealing with non-conformity.

Well obviously the firearm is one of your most important piece of kit, (This is my rifle this is my Gun LOL) but thanks to intel supplied here I won't bother with the military. Obviously they are more interested in fat grants and college than other things. Oh well, they can do just fine without me.

*snickers at non-conformity in regards to firearm preferences*

[atomic]

Well obviously the firearm is one of your most important piece of kit, (This is my rifle this is my Gun LOL) but thanks to intel supplied here I won't bother with the military. Obviously they are more interested in fat grants and college than other things. Oh well, they can do just fine without me.

*snickers at non-conformity in regards to firearm preferences*

THANK YOU !!

[LINUS]

M9 does not equal SIG. Very different pistols. Come back when you have reasons that are reasonable such that proves the M9 is superior in every possible way to the SIG. We'll use the P226 for this — 9mm, double stack, full size pistol.

As a SIG owner, I'd have gone with you on the SIG deal if you would have brought up 357sig rounds as a reason why, but a 9mm is a 9mm - some are more reliable than others, but if your deal is a SIG 9mm then join the Navy before you get drafted.

And for all others reading I realize the major PITA that adding another round to stock & standardize on would be plain stupid, just pointing out to Alice the only redeeming quality as I see it on the SIG issue.

But in general, I think if you train with pretty much any gun long enough, you'll do just fine with it.

The gun isn't the problem - it's the operator, practice can change that.