Oh I wouldnt imagine JUST the soap killing the salmon. Its the soap teamed with other pollutants, teamed with over fishing, and over development. Like those fish pipes, they lay under roads ,for streams to run through. Salmon cant jump up those to migrate. We are fucking up more than just their water quality, but their environment and spawning habbits. They will eventually have to adapt to just staying put in the streams and rivers, or become extinct.
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Originally posted by blunt -
So there should not be laws. Youre going to hope that people behave responsibly, as far as the environment goes? Well, that has happened in the past, and thats why we are where we are today. Now we need strictly enforced laws.
Hunting is a positive thing, actually. Once a species count gets above the carrying capacity (k), you typically see that the species crash in the community.
They can be "cops", I work out with my "cop buddy" 5 nights a week. He calls himself a cop, so Im sure its suitable.Originally posted by bluntComment
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does he wear a little cop outfit when you guys work outNot that I care, of course.
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hey guys you all forgot the most important thing here.
the solution to pollution is dilution
an flip: buddy go back to your tree house in Berkly an think about it for a bit before spouting green agenda and propagandaThe American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de TocquevilleOriginally posted by Fusion
The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-Comment
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No no, the law is there to help. But if this is the only thing they ban (give it a few years), then sure, its basically pointless. This is a start though, and its definitely headed in the right direction. You cant just spring tons of laws onto people all at once, you already see how people are acting just because of a car wash law. But yeah, if it just stops there, then it is a waste of time and money.
As far as me being a tree hugger, not really. I'm just voicing my positive opinion on the law, while others are basically just being objective, because they dont like the government telling them what to do. If the government told nicademus (and others, just picking on nicademus) he couldnt eat dog shit anymore, hed start stashing away as much dogshit as he could, it seems. Who cares if you are told what to do? It obviously needs to be done. If you can not see that the environment needs some laws in place to help it sustain itself, you are ignorant. If we would have lived sustainably from the beginning, and lived responsibly, then we wouldnt need these laws.Originally posted by bluntComment
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how does banning car washing when there is no scientific evidence to support the law help anything? sure laws are needed to protect the enviroment - but it doesn't do any good to pay lip service to environmentalism and pass stupid laws that don't have any real effect.
Gregoire is going for brownie points before the election - nothing more. Hopefully though it just pisses people off so we can finally be rid of her.Comment
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also, maybe you should start living your life like you talk. Why don't you voluntarily stop washing your car because it hurts the environment - actually, stop driving altogether. ride a bus and walk. Stop wasting electricty and shut your computer off instead of posting in this thread.Comment
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Now that would be going further than living sustainably. I would go out on a limb and say 100% of us on this site live above our means. So your example is going a little extreme. Its more than just electricity, wasting water, yada yada yada. Eating meat waste energy. Eating meat that is not local wastes TONS of energy. But we're all guilty of this for the most part. So if its something as easy and subtle as just not letting your wash water drain directly to the storm drains, what is that hurting you, really? Wash it on your lawn, and let the soil do its job and filter the water.
Theres no proof that this substance causes any harm to the environment? So these soaps are biodegradable, thats awesome. What is their pH? Since its soap, their pH is basic. These storm drains go DIRECTLY to the ocean (here along CA's central coast at least). These soaps enter the water, the swing in pH will the cause many marine organisms to die, that is a fact. If its not from the pH swing, as an immediate "shock" to them, it'll be from the slowly increased pH. These organisms need to be in a neutral pH environment or around it 7.1-8.1 pH is usually acceptable. These organisms, which are usually the primary consumers die off..... Then the sardines and other small fish which eat these start to starve, then the larger fish starve, etc etc etc. Its all a chain reaction.
Thats not even talking about the salmon in this case. That is another instance, where there is an impact....Originally posted by bluntComment
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There are principals this country was founded up on that are being infringed upon by so many laws like this one. Its another case of the Govt telling us what we can an can not do just for the sake of it, who said the writers of this law were educated???? jUST BECAUSE ITS A LAW DOSE NOT MAKE IT RIGHT!!!!!!! This is a scoff law if I have ever seen one, we have a duty as a american citizen to take a stand a when govt steps over the line, too bad no one has any back bone to this anymore.
Its very apparent to me that the proponents of this law an you flip have no clue how a storm sewer works. I have built sewer system for a living for 10+ years (not on paper but with pipe, brick an mortar and heavy equipment) so I ahve a pretty good idea how they work. Now 99.9% of those storm drains along the curb line are 4-5 feet deep an the pipe is about 2 feet off the bottom (there are times where clearance is a issue this is not the case but not very often) Now that 2 foot sump catches all the dirt an heavy metals in the bottom to keep it out of the ecosystem. that pipe then drains form the basin to the main storm pipe in the middle of the road somewhere, an most of them have traps in them somewhere along the line to catch even more of the dirt an heavy stuff.
There thats about 90+% of the heavy harmfull sediments and we are to the lighter than water stuff an the diluted stuff that yes makes it to the river at some point thats why you cant put used motor oil down the storm for the last 30 years. Now if you look at the back of most of the car soap bottles it will have some environmentally friendly will not harm the environment statement on the back. thus making the soap an heavy metal break dust both moot points at best. just think about it, not everything you read on the internetz about the environment is true.
The fish issue is more of a over harvesting for the last 30 years issue than a soap issue
my peace is saidThe American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de TocquevilleOriginally posted by Fusion
The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-Comment
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I thought about putting it that bluntly but figured I would try to explain it a bit 1stThe American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de TocquevilleOriginally posted by Fusion
The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-Comment
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Soap lowers the amount of oxygen available for absorption by fish...
Supposedly anyway.
I don't care either way. Just thought i'd throw it up :)Comment
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