Tagging - Why Do It?

[Ral]

Mariano, great post, I couldn't agree more. However, it does work both ways. There's some beautiful art that is done in this style, and many don't appreciate it for what it is. However, many of those artists (and "artists" who try to be edgy and creative but really deface public property under the guise of "social awareness") fail to understand that the placement of their work is often inappropriate and gives their art a bad name, reducing the ability of these works to reach and appeal to the masses.

And while I'm sure I sound like I'm totally against this art form, I'm not; I'm bringing up the other side of the story that many of the "fuck the establishment" crowd would not have thought about.

[CleanAzzE30z]

many of those artists (and "artists" who try to be edgy and creative but really deface public property under the guise of "social awareness") fail to understand that the placement of their work is often inappropriate and gives their art a bad name, reducing the ability of these works to reach and appeal to the masses.

You are completely correct. And that is their downfall. You are right.



Mariano

[markseven]

I would love it if you people read a little bit about sociology and human behavior through history, in general. Without bias. Its a great thing to be knowledgable in many things. That includes good and bad things. I speak from LOTS of experience. Ignorance is very unbecoming. One needs to be able to relate to other people. Just because to you it seems illogical to do something, doesnt mean that other people consider it so. Different experiences and influences impinge on an individual to do certain things. It leads to a certain way of thinking. Its that simple. You may not think it makes sense, because to you, it is illegal and it makes you cringe. But to others, its beautiful, and/or they have grown up or been taught that it is a great way to make a name for oneself in a very limited world. I like to give the example of what people eat around the world. One mans trash, is anothers delicacy. Once to take the prejudice out of the equation, it is easier to understand. If you were taught all through school by your peers that something is cool, then you grow up thinking that. I was in a gang by age 14 and majored in Sociology so I know from both sides of the issue.



Mariano

Mariano, are you saying that one's environment or socioeconomic status can mitigate the criminality of one's behavior?

[Turf1600]

I love graffitti. I think it's awesome - and I actually have some graffitti inspired artwork in my house.

However, I wouldn't want someone painting on my home. If and when I own a skatepark I'm going to hire graffitti artists to come and have a hayday.

Here's my fav 2 pieces in my house:




One day I'm going to hunt down some nice graffitti and do a photo shoot with my car.

[joshuaaa]

i wonder if cavemen had this discussion about cave drawings?

and some businesses actually hire artists to do murals on walls, so dont assume that all the art in cities is done without business owners consent.

[OrganicMechanic]

Here in St Louis about 10 years ago my friend went before the city council to get a permit to paint a mural that was a 1 mile in length. He invited EVERYBODY, found a place for those with low cash to stay for a few days. There is some massive pieces done by some of the best crews out there. Lots of trainwriters. I will get pics up eventually.

[deutschman]

Mariano, great post, I couldn't agree more. However, it does work both ways. There's some beautiful art that is done in this style, and many don't appreciate it for what it is. However, many of those artists (and "artists" who try to be edgy and creative but really deface public property under the guise of "social awareness") fail to understand that the placement of their work is often inappropriate and gives their art a bad name, reducing the ability of these works to reach and appeal to the masses.

And while I'm sure I sound like I'm totally against this art form, I'm not; I'm bringing up the other side of the story that many of the "fuck the establishment" crowd would not have thought about.

very good point.

Hey dude, if I owned a building like that and there was a tasteful work done on it, I'd leave it up if I could without hurting business. I'd just hire another artist to paint a note to the original artist saying "please, ask next time" or something equally tasteful and understated without disrupting the original design. But seriously, there's enough forward-thinking people in all areas that, with enough creativity and time this could be worked out so it would be condoned, and would become a permanent part of the cityscape. Everyone wants the same thing (beautifying and advancing their city, and bringing art to cities) more or less, so why not find a way so both sides can work towards that goal? (and yes, I understand it would take a massive effort on the part of city officials to open their mind to this, as many of whom are notoriously over-conservative.)

Also, if you think I'm old because of the way I write, I take that as a compliment. I'm not any older than many on the board, but given my job and goals in life the more professional I sound the better. Lastly, if you're going to correct me on "blow job" being two words, please don't use "lol" as a way to end a sentence. It hurts your credibility.

before this gets out of hand, i know. "lol" was not the best thing to use ha? im not a dick. i was thinking that the whole time i was writing that last post. you actually have some great things to say. that last one just sounded like it was written by an old man on a porch with a shot gun :). I did not mean any offense by what i wrote. I can not spell for beans as many people on this forum know. just poking a bit of fun at you man. plus everyone is entitled to their opiniun. my friends actualy make fun of me a lot for sounding like an old man. there is nothing bad about that.

[LEANE30]

from someone that spends alot of time focusing on art theory as well as philosophy, anyone that claims that anything isn't "art", doesn't know what art is. ...claiming something is or is not "fine art," now that is an entirely different topic.

the value of particular (good) graffiti works ties the non-objective perspective to the stylistic abstraction of literary expression, often in conjuction within an illustrated "story board" of sorts

graffiti culture is more often then not the leading edge of the artistic modern movements, partly in fact related to it's frequently illegal expression, it is the most active outlet. zealous desperation is lashed out, more often then not in a "copy-cat" manner, mimicing familiar styles to seek an internally rationalized sense of belonging to an intangible collective. most "tags" are done for the self (ego in freudian terms), not the "other" aka anyone else.

"taggers" that do illegal works, as a personality profile are often insecure individuals. professional artists that do graffiti style public artworks are usually more confident personality types, usually extroverts.

the curious part is why do ALL humans feel they must manipulate, have influence or control, or atleast an aesthetic disposition to their surroundings in order to find beauty or "acceptance" of?

i digress, GRAFFITI COOL. TAGS HAPPEN. FUCK YOU, YOUR DISTRACTING ME.

ANY QUESTIONS?






fuck it

[CleanAzzE30z]

Mariano, are you saying that one's environment or socioeconomic status can mitigate the criminality of one's behavior?

No. Im saying people are too quick to judge negatively without knowing the circumstances. WHen, in other instances, things are glossed over. I have a problem with people judging things and making generalisations when they know nothing about what they speak of. That is all. Its still illegal and they are still criminals.



Mariano

[LEANE30]

No. Im saying people are too quick to judge negatively without knowing the circumstances. WHen, in other instances, things are glossed over. I have a problem with people judging things and making generalisations when they know nothing about what they speak of. That is all. Its still illegal and they are still criminals.



Mariano

true. ... to the third party that didn't do the tag or owned the property that was hit, they have no room to make a judgement. there is reason to claiming "right" of influence within your immediate area, that's why things like HOA's exist.... but have any of you ever seen the type of people that try to get in on the ground level of HOA's? most should just be hung, or have their annoying tongues cut out. people that cry over spilt milk are often more annoying than the duty of cleaning it up.

[markseven]

No. Im saying people are too quick to judge negatively without knowing the circumstances. WHen, in other instances, things are glossed over. I have a problem with people judging things and making generalisations when they know nothing about what they speak of. That is all. Its still illegal and they are still criminals.



Mariano

Cool, I understand that ;-)

true. ... to the third party that didn't do the tag or owned the property that was hit, they have no room to make a judgement. there is reason to claiming "right" of influence within your immediate area, that's why things like HOA's exist.... but have any of you ever seen the type of people that try to get in on the ground level of HOA's? most should just be hung, or have their annoying tongues cut out. people that cry over spilt milk are often more annoying than the duty of cleaning it up.

Hmmm... so, because I wasn't involved in the tragedy that just took place in Wilmongton, CA, I am not entitled to have an opinion about it, speak out against it, or have compassion for the victim's family? (I realize that tagging / murder-suicide are apples/oranges)

[Atreus]

there are two types of graffiti IMO.

actual painters/taggers who are generally non violent and merely do it in order to gain recognition, its what they like to do. and they have a good comraderie (sp) with their other cohorts who are into the same hobby. ultimately, fame is the name of the game. and whoever has the most shit up, wins. some enjoy the rush of "o shit hope the cops don't get me" some are like "i wanna destroy property fuckit im mad at the world" and others are like "i want the kids who ride the bus to school to see this shit, and wonder. whos that guy, whats he like, how did he do that."

then; you have the "tagbangers"
lower level than your average graffiti-ist. purely to promote their gang, or crew, which usually has ties to violence, drugs, weapons, etc etc. really nothing to see.

tagbangers:

dumb shit.

graffiti:


sometimes, graffiti can turn violent, as sometimes space is limited, and others will go over your "work" so others can see, in return, you go back over them, usually at the same spot. if it escalates, then it is wherever you see their alias. to let them know you "get up" more than them.
ultimately, that can cause a physical confrontation if you guys are in the same circles.

i have friends who are 35+ who still write. i've heard of people getting their throats slit over this. or catching massive beatdowns. i've myself gotten into a couple confrontations when the other people are coincidentally at the same wall/bridge/trainyard.

/ex graffiti person....

btw, if you are really interested, check out 12ozprophet : http://12ozprophet.com/

[CleanAzzE30z]

As of very recently, I had many close friends that were in a tagging crew. I always gave them shit and teased them because these were the kind that had hand signs and dressed like cholos. I would constantly make fun of them saying how they were too waffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffles to join an actual neighborhood, and asking why they would dress the dress and all that. They really looked up to me because I was actually from a neighborhood.


Mariano

[markseven]

there are two types of graffiti IMO.

actual painters/taggers who are generally non violent and merely do it in order to gain recognition, its what they like to do. and they have a good comraderie (sp) with their other cohorts who are into the same hobby. ultimately, fame is the name of the game. and whoever has the most shit up, wins. some enjoy the rush of "o shit hope the cops don't get me" some are like "i wanna destroy property fuckit im mad at the world" and others are like "i want the kids who ride the bus to school to see this shit, and wonder. whos that guy, whats he like, how did he do that."

then; you have the "tagbangers"
lower level than your average graffiti-ist. purely to promote their gang, or crew, which usually has ties to violence, drugs, weapons, etc etc. really nothing to see.

tagbangers:

dumb shit.

graffiti:


sometimes, graffiti can turn violent, as sometimes space is limited, and others will go over your "work" so others can see, in return, you go back over them, usually at the same spot. if it escalates, then it is wherever you see their alias. to let them know you "get up" more than them.
ultimately, that can cause a physical confrontation if you guys are in the same circles.

i have friends who are 35+ who still write. i've heard of people getting their throats slit over this. or catching massive beatdowns. i've myself gotten into a couple confrontations when the other people are coincidentally at the same wall/bridge/trainyard.

/ex graffiti person....

btw, if you are really interested, check out 12ozprophet : http://12ozprophet.com/

Excellent information - thank you.

Thank you all for your input :D

[Farbin Kaiber]

Half Mile long.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-big-taggers29-2009jan29,0,557686.story