USA's Continued Economic Suicide.

[nando]

And this is part of the reason we are in trouble. Do you support your neighbor before you support your own family? The answer should be no.

It's not wrong to help them but only when we have our own problems sorted out.

that's where our philosophy differs. Helping your neighbor is helping yourself. But America has long since lost it's "neighborly" ways and we are all basically hermits even though most people live in crowded developments. I bet most people here have never even spoken to their neighbors. Count that as one of our problems that needs to be solved.

[Need4Speed]

the global economy you speak of has become our undoing.

+ 100

[joshh]

that's where our philosophy differs. Helping your neighbor is helping yourself. But America has long since lost it's "neighborly" ways and we are all basically hermits even though most people live in crowded developments. I bet most people here have never even spoken to their neighbors. Count that as one of our problems that needs to be solved.

That only works if they reciprocate. Otherwise it's all giving and for none. Helping someone or even a country get back up on their feet is one thing. Mexico could care less about helping the US. Other than us continuing to buy their products.

[nando]

That only works if they reciprocate. Otherwise it's all giving and for none. Helping someone or even a country get back up on their feet is one thing. Mexico could care less about helping the US. Other than us continuing to buy their products.

are you certain? because I sure saw a lot of made-in-usa cars down there, as just one example. They may not "care" about us but if they aren't all dirt-poor, uneducated and living in shacks, they will be more likely to buy stuff from us. But I guess you'd rather keep them where they are so we can feel superior? Even you guys who are unemployed are far better off than half of their population.

[joshh]

are you certain? because I sure saw a lot of made-in-usa cars down there, as just one example. They may not "care" about us but if they aren't all dirt-poor, uneducated and living in shacks, they will be more likely to buy stuff from us. But I guess you'd rather keep them where they are so we can feel superior? Even you guys who are unemployed are far better off than half of their population.

Don't kid yourself, they don't buy American because they're trying to help us...I'm not a bleeding heart. Although I feel bad for many people in less than acceptable conditions, I feel more mad that their country let's them down to that degree. Mexico is 100 times worse than the US is in regards to poor vs rich.
That makes me not want to support Mexico because I know the money we send there still doesn't go to the poor people willing to work. And when it does, it's an American company thinking they can take advantage of poor Mexican people because well "we gave them a job", "they should be happy they even have a job"....even though it still pays for shit. Just keeping that Mexican family alive.
I don't blame the Mexicans that do come over here for work, although I don't want them here unless they are legal.

We are not a welfare state...

[mrsleeve]

NAFTA didn't benefit the US. It benefitted companies looking for cheaper wages. So not only did we lose jobs, we lost product as well.

ding ding ding ding we have a winna

hey look at this me and josh agree on something

[nando]

We are not a welfare state...

oh but we are, and expect social welfare programs to only increase from here on. cradle-to-grave government dependence is where we've been heading for years.


if you think the mexicans are better off without jobs - okay, I guess they can come up with something else. They will most likely end up as street peddlers, drug dealers, thugs, or beggars. Those without a job basically can't send their kids to school because although they have public edjucation, it's not mandatory and only tuition is covered - transportation and books are up to the parents to provide.

everyone here thinks americans are so poor and having such a hard time "surviving" the world, but I bet none of you live in a shack with a dirt floor.

[joshh]

ding ding ding ding we have a winna

hey look at this me and josh agree on something

I guess 2 out of 10 aint bad.....lol.

oh but we are, and expect social welfare programs to only increase from here on. cradle-to-grave government dependence is where we've been heading for years.


if you think the mexicans are better off without jobs - okay, I guess they can come up with something else. They will most likely end up as street peddlers, drug dealers, thugs, or beggars. Those without a job basically can't send their kids to school because although they have public edjucation, it's not mandatory and only tuition is covered - transportation and books are up to the parents to provide.

everyone here thinks americans are so poor and having such a hard time "surviving" the world, but I bet none of you live in a shack with a dirt floor.

We already give out billions in wefare we shouldn't be giving out. Specially in this time of problems.
Bleeding heart...not my problem.
If their government wants to start helping them find jobs, and help them get on their feet, I'm all for helping them. The Mexican government sits back and laughs at us for trying to help them. Fuck em.
No matter how you feel about all the sick and starving people on this planet, we will never be able to help them without unification from their own government to want to help their own citizens.
I'm not willing for our country to be run down trying to help all the poor people on this planet to then turn into a starving nation ourselves. And that is exactly what would happen.

[nando]

yes we can help them, and we are - by trading with them.

[joshh]

yes we can help them, and we are - by trading with them.

Who do you think that trade helps in Mexico?

[daniel]

There are plenty of US based corporations that make products with LEGAL US labor forces. You have to open your eyes and do the research on the products that you buy. Just because we make inferior cars, do not let it jade your opinion towards all American made products. There are many industries that America still leads and continues to make the best quality. You can not go by the products that the average consumer buys at the big box stores. They over-advertise and make it easier for Joe Blow to buy these cheap products over and over again because they are more profitable.

actually, i didn't once mention the automobile industry in my post.

[nando]

Who do you think that trade helps in Mexico?

because it grows their economy and lifts people out of poverty?

[Need4Speed]

because it grows their economy and lifts people out of poverty?

How did this become our responsibility?

[nando]

apparently you guys think we live on an island in isolation and that no other country affects us. Trade grows our economy too. If mexico were doing as well as canada for example, we'd all be better off.

Go look at any country that has borders closed to trade (either through government or fear), where the economies have been stagnant for decades and see how much better off the people are there.

[Julien]

It's not really a question of production but more of a question of added value. As long as US employees can still add value to any kind of product, the economy can still grow..

A first big step would be to stop giving tax breaks to companies who outsource their labor.. Secondly the patriotic appeal doesn't work for shit regarding consuming decisions.. What works is smart business and quality products. Some of the best business strategy is still coming out the United States but it just seems to be applied better in other countries.

Look what happened in the 1980s with the American cotton/clothes industry. They were trying to compete with asia on price and were losing the battle. Their first step was to appeal to the patriotic America by advertisements begging people to purchase american goods, which didn't work. So instead, they got smarter and developed a new type of strategy (what porter call the chain lock strategy), where suppliers wholesalers and retailers got together to better analyze their forecasts and via information sharing reduced their costs and efficiency tremendously, thus saving the industry.

Lastly, to me, american business education isn't hard enough, you can pretty much sleep through 4 years of marketing or business administration and still get your degree. And not to get into the europe (and asia) vs american school system debate, but seriously college is easy in the united states and makes students lazy. yes you have to work long hours to pass classes but the critical thinking element is gone. Nothing forces students to really use their brains anymore. Again this is a gross generalisation.. but I'm not the first to notice it.

Lastly, the corporate American worker works longer but is much less productive than the European or Asian counter part. It's time for the country to get back on it's feet and regain some pride in it's products... seriously, when was the last time you ran into someone who really truly cared of the company they worked for, the product they sold, and the overall well being of their fellow employees. Seems that that mentallity is just gone, everyone works for a paycheck. Call me too passionate but it just doesn't cut it for me.