GM, Bailout, Obama....

[rwh11385]

the word is "fee" Does not mean they did not pay US News to put them there. GM is known as well as others in doing so for ratings. US News just does not charge a "fee"

Right...

So the "support" you posted to back up your questioning of the validity of the best car for the money ended up expressing directly that the reason you gave was not true with the case at hand, so instead of admitting that... you move onto making more claims, but without any facts to back you up... standard.


Do you think that it is more likely that GM spent a lot of money to pay off every single reviewer to say that the Cruze is much better quality than the Cavalier and Cobalt, as well as focus on it on the same playing field as the competition... or is it more logical that the car is greatly improved because of the money they spent on actually making a better compact car?


With your typical mode of operation, you enter any discussion without any real facts and throw your biased opinion into the mix - often to be disproved by the most simple search for truth. Wouldn't it be better to actually be informed of a topic at hand and contribute intelligently?

[Vedubin01]

Im feeling as if your posts are nothing but a personal attack. Its cool, and if you think they dont pay for their ratings, you are more of a moron than I thought. Of course they will not come out and say that, palms get greased in every business. GM is hanging on by a tread and still owing the US taxpayer $40 Billion+ they are doing everything they can to produce a positive image.

Sure they have improved their cars from say 8 years ago. But they are also charging upwards of 20% more for the car. All of a sudden to have such a break through, its very skeptical when they have been known to pay for ratings in the past.

[rwh11385]

Im feeling as if your posts are nothing but a personal attack. Its cool, and if you think they dont pay for their ratings, you are more of a moron than I thought. Of course they will not come out and say that, palms get greased in every business. GM is hanging on by a tread and still owing the US taxpayer $40 Billion+ they are doing everything they can to produce a positive image.

Sure they have improved their cars from say 8 years ago. But they are also charging upwards of 20% more for the car. All of a sudden to have such a break through, its very skeptical when they have been known to pay for ratings in the past.

Hey, if you feel like I am attacking your complete lack of effort to provide facts to back up your wild claims and biased opinion, then you are correct. But that's not the first time.

You skeptical? Shit, once again I am shocked in this thread.

And guess what - they are charging more and people are buying them. And without incentives like the old days that pushed piece of shit cars out the dealer, because people just wanted a car and settled on GM. And they have discovered they can leverage the parts of the car that no one sees while changing the sheet metal so 'badge engineering' vehicles don't look identical.

The sudden breakthrough is Bob Lutz and other people like Steve Girsky or Mary Barra, who would have been ignored or attacked at old GM and are tearing down bad practices and the old system to improve the company. They have a long way to go in some areas, but the development, design, and manufacturing are very much improved.

Yes - they still owe a lot of money to the government... but doesn't it make more sense for them to work hard to make good cars and actually have people want to buy them?? They do need to earn people's trust back and are trying the same kind of moves as Hyundai, or Ford, to get people to try them out now. What doesn't help is all the people who are biased but completely uninformed about recent products and them making assumptions and blasting their opinion without basis. Those who have actually been in a new car see the drastic improvements the reviews mention - although it's hard to see behind a computer and wearing a tinfoil hat.

[Vedubin01]

And guess what - they are charging more and people are buying them. And without incentives like the old days that pushed piece of shit cars out the dealer, because people just wanted a car and settled on GM. And they have discovered they can leverage the parts of the car that no one sees while changing the sheet metal so 'badge engineering' vehicles don't look identical.

Ah as well as your bullshit about incentives correct? There are still incentives for Chevy. Their new incentive is called the Try-Out program. And the Volt still has the 7500 tax credit as well as cash back for many of the Chevrolet line.

People are buying them as there are people that have always purchased them. But that 41% profit loss just tells me that there are less people purchasing these fine automobiles.


sorry but its pretty hard to make Chicken Salad out of Chicken Shit!




Since we are talking about incentives and what not, your Chevy Volt numbers that you are all proud about. Does that include the dealers purchasing these cars. Titling them, collecting the $7500 tax rebate and reselling them on the lot with no miles? Nice way of bending the numbers!

And here ya go.... some back up on that story.


So with Local State and Federal Government as well as dealerships purchasing these Volts, what is the true consumer numbers when it comes to sales of this automobile? A lot of smoke and mirrors it seems!

[rwh11385]

Ah as well as your bullshit about incentives correct? There are still incentives for Chevy. Their new incentive is called the Try-Out program. And the Volt still has the 7500 tax credit as well as cash back for many of the Chevrolet line.

People are buying them as there are people that have always purchased them. But that 41% profit loss just tells me that there are less people purchasing these fine automobiles.


sorry but its pretty hard to make Chicken Salad out of Chicken Shit!




Since we are talking about incentives and what not, your Chevy Volt numbers that you are all proud about. Does that include the dealers purchasing these cars. Titling them, collecting the $7500 tax rebate and reselling them on the lot with no miles? Nice way of bending the numbers!

And here ya go.... some back up on that story.


So with Local State and Federal Government as well as dealerships purchasing these Volts, what is the true consumer numbers when it comes to sales of this automobile? A lot of smoke and mirrors it seems!

Wow man, once again, you're the living example of how watching Fox News and reading RWNJ makes you less informed than the general public. Especially when you are lazy when it comes to not finding if your sources are reasonable, or just attempting to use any logic whatsoever.

If you care to look into that story, you'll find that it was only passed around right-wing blogs and papers for the most part, and no one has mentioned it for like a year. The primary reason for that is that dealership in non-launch markets weren't able to buy them directly and got them from dealers in launch markets, and then marked up the price or could not offer the incentive and people would still buy them. Now that the Volt is available nationwide, simple market mechanics make that move impossible. Dick move on the dealer's part, but a non-issue now.

Even Jalopnik, which generally hates electric cars and the Volt published this: http://jalopnik.com/5806946/chevy-de...lt-tax-credits

The story was then picked up by a number of outlets, none of whom did much in the way of vetting of the source. And in this case, it's fair to question it. The National Legal and Policy Center is one of a number of groups which criticizes the Obama administration for a living. Funded in part by right-wing activist Richard Mellon Scaife, nearly all of its stories target Democrats in some fashion, and the Volt piece was part of the site's "union corruption update" series.

Even if dealers were passing Volts around, how would that boost numbers in the long run? Eventually consumers would have to buy them, or they'd be sitting in some back room collecting dust. Not logical, or thought-out.


Incentives? Really dude. The heavy discounting of the early 2000s (everyone gets employee pricing) were giving people cars super cheap just so they would settle on them. A "Love it or Leave it" program is a gutsy move to demonstrate how much confidence they have in their products. And to make my point about pricing, Chevrolet is now taking a page out of the Saturn book and doing fixed pricing. These are a far cry from the olden days where people would tell themselves the cars were too cheap to consider other cars, all while hating them everyday. (Passenger cars at least, Trucks and Corvettes never bought into the general management policies and shit product plan) If you look at the current offers, only trucks and suvs have any 'consumer cash': http://www.chevrolet.com/tools/currentoffers/results.do

And the federal tax credit isn't just for the Volt. People could get that from the Leaf, and a smaller one for the Prius PHEV. That does incentivize purchasing of the Volt, although you can't really say that it is pushing the majority of GM cars while at the same time questioning how many are being sold.

41% profit drop should tell you that more people are buying Hondas and Toyotas than a year ago when they couldn't. The earthquake brought a wave of customers to domestic car companies, as I mentioned previously. They lucked out and instead of working hard to keep improving, they celebrated.

Fusion provided a source to look up all those state and local government purchases, if you are so inclined. . .


Smoke and mirrors, tinfoil hats, and conspiracy theories... typical dude.

[Vedubin01]

let me get this right, Dealerships did not do this at all and it was nothing but a right winged smear campaign against the volt?


And Chevolet was still offering employee pricing ++ incentives well after the bailout.

[rwh11385]

let me get this right, Dealerships did not do this at all and it was nothing but a right winged smear campaign against the volt?

CAN YOU NOT READ??!?

I never said it didn't happen but it was a much exaggerated "story" and eliminated itself by the nationwide availability. What person would go to one dealership and pay over MSRP without a tax credit when they could go down the street and get one for $32K?? It only was a viable way for a few dealerships to make $ (on both sides) when it was available in some states but not others and customers who wanted it in the non-launch states.

Is that difficult to understand?

[Vedubin01]

CAN YOU NOT READ??!?

I never said it didn't happen but it was a much exaggerated "story" and eliminated itself by the nationwide availability. What person would go to one dealership and pay over MSRP without a tax credit when they could go down the street and get one for $32K?? It only was a viable way for a few dealerships to make $ (on both sides) when it was available in some states but not others and customers who wanted it in the non-launch states.

Is that difficult to understand?

Nope just a baited question...

[joshh]

Hmmmm. I'm not really sure why you posted this - it compares the "value" of the Cruze and expected reliability versus its current competition... but doesn't relate it at all to the Cavalier, so kinda misses the point entirely (not exactly a first for you...)

Maybe that's why....

[rwh11385]

Maybe that's why....

I know logic and reason are not your strong suits...

Look back at what you responded to:

Ask anyone who has driven a Cavalier and a Cruze if they have improved.

What you have replied with is like "arguing" against a statement like 'Johnny grew a lot over the last few years' with 'Frank is still taller'.



If you care to read the chart, Cruze is at the average value of the class (according to it seems consumer reports). Average is a lot better than horribly bad. And by US News, it's the Best Car for the Money in its class. All reviews repeat it is in another level of play compared to Cavalier or Cobalt. But congrats on not being able to make an intelligent argument in response to the statement.

[joshh]

I know logic and reason are not your strong suits...

Look back at what you responded to:



What you have replied with is like "arguing" against a statement like 'Johnny grew a lot over the last few years' with 'Frank is still taller'.



If you care to read the chart, Cruze is at the average value of the class (according to it seems consumer reports). Average is a lot better than horribly bad. And by US News, it's the Best Car for the Money in its class. All reviews repeat it is in another level of play compared to Cavalier or Cobalt. But congrats on not being able to make an intelligent argument in response to the statement.

Hey look a red herring!

Improvement means nothing when you're still at the bottom of the list of all your competitors. Idiots buy the car....

[Morrison]

The Chevy Cruze "Eco" was good enough for a second place rating in this Motor Trend review:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1208_40_mpg_compact_sedan_comparison/viewall.html

My sister just bought a fully loaded LTZ RS version about 5 months ago. I've got to admit it I liked it more than I thought I would. The turbocharged 1.4L is no slouch, the leather seating is comfy, and the stereo images amazingly with its center channel speaker placement.

I've never condsidered Consumer Reports to be the best source to consider when choosing a car. They claim my X5 3.0i is extremely tippy and prone to rollovers in emergency maneuvers, but the 4.4i is not. I drove both back to back and the inline 6 handled far superior to me.

[Vedubin01]

General Motors Is Headed For Bankruptcy -- Again





President Obama is proud of his bailout of General Motors. That’s good, because, if he wins a second term, he is probably going to have to bail GM out again. The company is once again losing market share, and it seems unable to develop products that are truly competitive in the U.S. market.
Right now, the federal government owns 500,000,000 shares of GM, or about 26% of the company. It would need to get about $53.00/share for these to break even on the bailout, but the stock closed at only $20.21/share on Tuesday. This left the government holding $10.1 billion worth of stock, and sitting on an unrealized loss of $16.4 billion.


More here...

[Morrison]

If this sort of thing makes you squeamish....I'd strongly suggest staying away from any candidate who supports funneling a portion of your social security taxes into government backed stock market investments.

[z31maniac]

If this sort of thing makes you squeamish....I'd strongly suggest staying away from any candidate who supports funneling a portion of your social security taxes into government backed stock market investments.

Or we could just do away with it and let people be responsible for their own retirement.

I'd be in favor of that one. But I guess that's because I know at 30, I won't get ANY return on investment for the taxes I'm paying now.