How bad is this oil spill

[briansjacobs]

[QUOTE=mrsleeve;2010475]^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What fucking idiot liberal hippie bloger are you getting your info from. We have WAy more than 2% We have 4 finds in the last 20 years that rival that of the Saudis in 1952. We have more oil than much of the middle east combined.

I saw a story referring to this find of massive proportion but it did not site a source for the information, it did say that only 10% may be rocoverable, which is still a shitload of oil. It also states with this find it stops the need for offshore drilling


Oh I said IF THE HIPPIES WILL STAY OUTTA COURTS. just because they have not filed yet does not mean they wont. Attorneys are part of every sub group of nearly every large business operations.

so you feel there should be no legal implication to parties at fault for this disaster?

it was an explortory well not a production well. was not relid upon for supply there for NO SHORTAGE. The feds on the other hand want to add to the gas tax to help pay for this clean up.
I have heard nothing about adding to the gas tax, can reference for me


Wind = WAY to expensive to make power. They are only going up all over because of all OUR TAX dollars to subsidize their construction. Oh and its not windy all the time, = not enough power when you need it,
actually in certain locations wind is very viable. There are many places that get a constant source of wind all year long.


Solar = hugely inefficient, it takes 100's of acers to make enough power to run a medium sized city. Oh its not sunny all the time in most place in this country. and where is, the positions that are screaming for all this green energy are blocking the construction. because it may interfere with a mouse and turtle
we have solar here in South Florida, it is offsetting production by 10%, (source FPL)


Geo therm works good on the small scale or when you live on a volcanic island like Iceland . Where you have enough heat in the ground to make steam to spin the turbines.

Nuke = great BUT VERY VERY expensive to build, and are yes subsidized by our tax dollars. With out that subside the cost for the power would be INSANE.
I have a few friends in the nuke business, the big expense is the life expectancy of the plant and after the plant is shut down it would need crews to man them. But the power is cheap and clean

H2 is way more volatile than gas, it likes to burn and explode much more readily. You really want H2 and O2 running around in traffic with all the idiots out there. That and the power it takes to split the bonds of water into H2, makes it more energy intensive than making petrol distillates.
actually H2 is quite safe and stable, BMW has a fleet of 7 series they put over a million miles on.



Electric cars???? Well till the battery tech gets 1000 fold better then it is. We up rate the power grid to accommodate rapid charging its a pipe dream.
the only way to get batterry tech better is keep working on the technology, I personally would rather have a diesel than a hybrid at this point

[mrsleeve]

I saw a story referring to this find of massive proportion but it did not site a source for the information, it did say that only 10% may be rocoverable, which is still a shitload of oil. It also states with this find it stops the need for offshore drilling

Ummm K much of that is in Shale formation, that was considered unrecoverable (thanks to the govt, the EPA, and the clean water act) up until 2005. Congress let it sunset, now the Hydrolic Fracturing, Aka Fracing, is back into full production all over the country and being used 99% safely. you need to frac to get product outta shale formations, there for much more oil/gas in those formations are now recoverable, so long as the govt stays outta the way and not bad the process again like it did for 30 years. Why would there be no need for off shore drilling?? We have the Chinese with rigs 45 miles off the coast sucking oil out of the ground that we should be getting.

so you feel there should be no legal implication to parties at fault for this disaster?

Nope not at all, but how about we let BP do what its going to do and let them do the right thing 1st. Also I am talking about Frivolous lawsuits by the hippies.


I have heard nothing about adding to the gas tax, can reference for me
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/us/02liability.html


actually in certain locations wind is very viable. There are many places that get a constant source of wind all year long.
Yes it may be windy all the time (my inlaws live in IA) there about 200 of them 2 miles to the east. at full production they make less than 2% of the power for IA. They are very very expensive to put up. they cost about 1.7million per Meg of power. The ones they were putting up near me on a job I was on in PA were 1.6mw than = 2.75 million a pop. they put up 66 of them or 180m for the farm or and makes 105 mw for the entire farm when its windy. a conventional coal or NG fired plant costs about 600k bucks per mw. so for 180m bucks they could have built a 300mw plant and powered much more 3 times more homes and business for the same price. Wind power is 3 TIMES MORE EXPENSIVE than conventional fired generation facilities, WE HAVE VAST coal and NG resources in this country, the largest in the world for that matter.

Thats why wind is not cost effective, it takes WAY too much tax payer money to put up and then the returns ore NOTHING if they didnt have the subsidize. Oh even though it windy a lot of the time some places, the wind does not Blow 100% of the time, and yo have no way to effectively store the excess production for latter. No wind = no power thats just how its.



we have solar here in South Florida, it is offsetting production by 10%, (source FPL)

how much did that 10% cost the tax payers. FPL would not have done it with out some kind tax intensive, not cost effective .




I have a few friends in the nuke business, the big expense is the life expectancy of the plant and after the plant is shut down it would need crews to man them. But the power is cheap and clean
Again VERY VERY EXPENSIVE in the long run. I like the idea of Nuke power and we need more of them. have not built one since the 70's. All though GA is got approval to build 2 this last year. and there are over 150 applications to build into the federal govt for FERC and govt approval.


actually H2 is quite safe and stable, BMW has a fleet of 7 series they put over a million miles on.
were they are crashed or run into by a sleepy trucker and rupture the h2 tanks. H2 is not stable at all, need I remind you of the Hindenburg

.
the only way to get batterry tech better is keep working on the technology, I personally would rather have a diesel than a hybrid at this point

talk to the EPA they have effectively regulated ultra efficient conventional engines out of the US gas or diesel. I will stick with my gas and diesel till electrics have the same range, power, and refill time as what I have now. I think I will be dead 1st.

[Restoman]

Here is a bit of an opinion, but Briansjacobs is already annoying at 32 post.

[Wiglaf]

Way to blow off / downplay all the alternatives.

If you think solar doesn't make power on a cloudy day, you may be surprised to find that you are 70~80% incorrect.

It's true that none of these alternatives will single-handedly replace oil for fuel. They will ALL have to become larger players. The energy IS out there, and the way we use it is still grossly inefficient.

None of this has a fuck to do with how badly a slick covered ocean will ruin your trip to red lobster.

[mrsleeve]

Way to blow off / downplay all the alternatives.

If you think solar doesn't make power on a cloudy day, you may be surprised to find that you are 70~80% incorrect.

It's true that none of these alternatives will single-handedly replace oil for fuel. They will ALL have to become larger players. The energy IS out there, and the way we use it is still grossly inefficient.

Again if was an effective way to generate power then the utilities would be doing it with out the need for the US govt/taxpayers to subsidize the construction of said facilities. If there was a favorable cost benefit for the utility owners then we would be seeing this already and long ago. Business look for any edge to increase their margins. Especially in the highly regulated ( you know price controlled) power generation sector.

Fairly sure the sun dose not shine at night, and with no effective way to store the power from the day time both wind and solar to use during the peak night hours, we need to have redundant systems one for day one for night. That would be costly as thats more up keep, more specialty trained staff (read expensive) land to acquire, taxes to pay, and on and on.

You want to see your energy rates double or triple???? All this just to keep the power flowing, not to include all the taxes you pay and that will be added thanks to the up and coming Cap and TAX carbon off set bill.

[Matt-B]

My dads cousin is a shrimper is LA. he has had to lay off 29 of his employees and only kept 2. Its affecting jobs massively, but also creating them to clean shit up.

This reminds me off the the NEW CARISSA that crashed off Oregon coast.
Exxon Valdez? Its no surprise shit is not going as planned. To put it simply, its very cold down there, so no wonder they had problems with freezing.

People are mad that we should have burned the oil from day 1. Well i don't think people in the gulf want drifting oil slicks on fire, coming near them :D

Anyway in time it will get fixed, and i think 2000 barrels a day are being saved and pumped out. But its all short term shit.

[BDK]

What fucking idiot liberal hippie bloger are you getting your info from. We have WAy more than 2% We have 4 finds in the last 20 years that rival that of the Saudis in 1952. We have more oil than much of the middle east combined

.

Uhh, you really need to research your misinformation...
First off do you know how many barrels the U.S. uses a day? 20 million...
If you use the USGS reports for ANWAR,
these aren't pollitico's, these are scientists...
and If you could scoop up all the oil in ANWAR it would last a total of 3 mos,
but it will take 10 yrs to get roads built and due to the type of field that it is,
it will take 5-7 yrs to pump out 3 mos worth of oil....
makes no sense to me maybe to you ...
you research the "rest of your finds..." and please don't use FOX as your source...

I have been against drilling in the Gulf since the beginning because the worst case scenario is not worth the little bit of oil there....
I live less than a mile from the beach, the Gulf, and it can and may destroy the economy of all gulf residing states and now we are finding out that the east coast may got it too due to the gulf loop....

I work for a foundation that is right on the beach and we had our First Disaster Meeting on this this week.
What the local gov't is telling us right now,
is that the Keys are expected to be a disaster,
everything on the west coast of FLA and East coast will get their share,
the weather and tide will determine how bad.

You guys need to research the Exxon Valdese disaster too because you will find out that 20 yrs after it, they still have oil on the beaches and it still kills wildlife every year...

BP says it will still take 90 days to completely seal the well, it's been a month already...
the oil that we can see is just the tip of the iceberg as the majority of the oil is at ateast two different depths, 2300 ft deep and 4300 ft deep, there probably is more but those are confirmed and confirmed to be large amounts, miles long...

The gulf loop could spread this all over the gulf states and any state that is near the gulf stream...( the entire east coast)... weather and tide will determine who gets the worst... Nature isn't used to dealing with this because it suppose to be underground...

Seafood may go thru the roof so get your's now why you can still enjoy it...

There a lot at stake on this and we will start to see it here in FL within the next month...

If you think this will all be over next year, you're very ignorant to the true situation...

[briansjacobs]

Here is a bit of an opinion, but Briansjacobs is already annoying at 32 post.

considering the source, I am not offended

[mrsleeve]

.

Uhh, you really need to research your misinformation...
First off do you know how many barrels the U.S. uses a day? 20 million...
If you use the USGS reports for ANWAR,
these aren't pollitico's, these are scientists...
and If you could scoop up all the oil in ANWAR it would last a total of 3 mos,
but it will take 10 yrs to get roads built and due to the type of field that it is,
it will take 5-7 yrs to pump out 3 mos worth of oil....
makes no sense to me maybe to you ...
you research the "rest of your finds..." and please don't use FOX as your source...

I have been against drilling in the Gulf since the beginning because the worst case scenario is not worth the little bit of oil there....
I live less than a mile from the beach, the Gulf, and it can and may destroy the economy of all gulf residing states and now we are finding out that the east coast may got it too due to the gulf loop....

I work for a foundation that is right on the beach and we had our First Disaster Meeting on this this week.
What the local gov't is telling us right now,
is that the Keys are expected to be a disaster,
everything on the west coast of FLA and East coast will get their share,
the weather and tide will determine how bad.

You guys need to research the Exxon Valdese disaster too because you will find out that 20 yrs after it, they still have oil on the beaches and it still kills wildlife every year...

BP says it will still take 90 days to completely seal the well, it's been a month already...
the oil that we can see is just the tip of the iceberg as the majority of the oil is at ateast two different depths, 2300 ft deep and 4300 ft deep, there probably is more but those are confirmed and confirmed to be large amounts, miles long...

The gulf loop could spread this all over the gulf states and any state that is near the gulf stream...( the entire east coast)... weather and tide will determine who gets the worst... Nature isn't used to dealing with this because it suppose to be underground...

Seafood may go thru the roof so get your's now why you can still enjoy it...

There a lot at stake on this and we will start to see it here in FL within the next month...

If you think this will all be over next year, you're very ignorant to the true situation...

My information is accurate I make my living in the oil/gas industry. I get my information from the people that drill the shit, and search for it, not the liberal oil hating media and our OH so truthful Federal govt.

Is this situation in the gulf an issue sure it is, never denied that. You have to remember the solution to pollution is Dilution. You have a few 100k barrels of oil out there in a few trillion barrels of water. Mother nature will work its self out in the end. will there be repercussion in the mean time that warrant a massive clean up effort FUCKING RIGHT there will be and rightly so. But to act like this is the end of the world is stupid and ludicrous.

We as humans can do one thing to fuck up this ball of dirt, NUCLEAR ARMAGEDDON. and even then in a blink of an eye in terms of the cosmos life will return. We and our actions are meaningless and insignificant in the grand scope of universe, and the longevity of this ball of dirt. It has been here for 4.5 billion years and survived huge meteor impacts and cosmic radiation. It will continue to be here for another 4-5 billion years till the sun goes Nova and expands to a red giant and consumes all everything this side of the asteroid belt. We wont care about that, we personalty and as a species will have extinct for billions of years. I dont think a little oil is going to effect the earth all that much. The sun will come up tomorrow.

I eat Cow and red meat. If I want fish I will go catch it outta a local lake or stream, the only sea bugs I eat come from alaska so I am not too worried.

[briansjacobs]

my local lake is or stream is the Atlantic and I live 4 miles from the Gulf Stream, meaning I live just off the water. I grew up in Keys so this is something near and dear to my heart. Tourism does not directly effect me, but I love my state and have great pride in where I live. Come visit, it's great!

[BlueBMW]

it was an explortory well not a production well. was not relid upon for supply there for NO SHORTAGE. The feds on the other hand want to add to the gas tax to help pay for this clean up.

What I'm suggesting is that any excuse to jack up gas prices is a good excuse. How come the second hurricane Katrina "threatened" to disrupt gasoline supplies, the local price of gas shot up from $3.30 to $4.75 in one day. Yet once production was restored, the price took several weeks to come back down.

Ummm yeah its all the profit seeking evil oil companies. You have no clue what you are bitching about.

All I know is that oil companies take any opportunity to make a profit. Its the idea of a MAXIMUM profit (at any cost) instead of a reasonable profit that I have frustrations with.

I'm only bitchin cuz I'm a tree huggin liberal :D That's why I drive a 4 cylinder! ;) Not really, although I do lean more left than right. And I am concerned for the environment.

Wind = WAY to expensive to make power. They are only going up all over because of all OUR TAX dollars to subsidize their construction. Oh and its not windy all the time, = not enough power when you need it,

Again, wind is only one part of a variety of sources that should be implemented. Urban wind turbines are starting to reach a level of development that they will be cost effective.

Solar = hugely inefficient, it takes 100's of acers to make enough power to run a medium sized city. Oh its not sunny all the time in most place in this country. and where is, the positions that are screaming for all this green energy are blocking the construction. because it may interfere with a mouse and turtle

Solar is becoming far more efficient and cost effective. The days of large silicon panels are giving way for flexible photovoltaic sheets that are durable and efficient in even very low light. Soon you can wrap anything you want in a fabric like material that produces current from solar energy.

Geo therm works good on the small scale or when you live on a volcanic island like Iceland . Where you have enough heat in the ground to make steam to spin the turbines.

Geothermal is to be used wherever available as part of a network of energy production.

Nuke = great BUT VERY VERY expensive to build, and are yes subsidized by our tax dollars. With out that subside the cost for the power would be INSANE.

Nuclear is a viable solution to offset fossil fuel use for the next 50 to 100 years, no more. It is cleaner and safer than coal or oil as energy sources. Expensive to build, yes... but once built it is extremely cheap.

H2 is way more volatile than gas, it likes to burn and explode much more readily. You really want H2 and O2 running around in traffic with all the idiots out there. That and the power it takes to split the bonds of water into H2, makes it more energy intensive than making petrol distillates.

It has been calculated that the entire world electricity supply could be replaced with existing wind, solar, wave, hep, and geo sources for a cost of approximately 13 trillion dollars and about 10 years time to implement. Thats replacing everything. I will find you all the source for this here in a bit.

Electric cars???? Well till the battery tech gets 1000 fold better then it is. We up rate the power grid to accommodate rapid charging its a pipe dream.

I envision electric cars for urban commuting and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles for longer distances. Fuel cells that bond hydrogen into a solid state are far safer than compressed liquid hydrogen tanks. Also hydrogen can be produced on site with electricity and water on demand thereby eliminating the entire refining / transportation of fuel system.

Ultimately I envision a smart grid system consisting of all alternatives with only a few fossil sources to be used where no other alternative can be implemented. Most energy will be from local solar or wind farms with HEP and geo used where possible. Wave along coastal areas, and nuclear if needed. I'd like to see electric trains for bulk transport over long distances and electric vehicles for urban areas. Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles will be for long distance travel. I believe all this to be possible and necessary if we're to counter the negative effects (if you believe in them) of consuming fossil fuels. Oil may only last 50 years, coal should last another 200, and uranium about 100 years, but solar, wind etc will last until the sun's energy diminishes too much (a very long time)

what are in 10th grade?????

Sophomore in college sorry :D Starting late tho, I'm 26

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Oil makes a MODEST profit of 6-8% on the end for refined products. They dont drive the price up all willy niily trying to gouge the consumer for everything they can possibly get.

Since they are tied to a globally traded commodity, their product price is tied to what their raw materials cost you know crude . When there is a disruption in that supply then there is a spike in in refined product cost to buy the product.

I am not going to again rebut all your green energy arguments, other than to say again, that if it was a economically viable means of power generation then the free markets and the utilities would have been investing and building this shit for the last 3 decades. With out the current infusion of OUR TAX dollars it would not be viable. Its costing us all way more than it should.

You may want to do some research on the Big Brother Grid and what its implications are to all of our freedoms and wallets

Dont worry about getting a late start, I will be 32-33 by the time I can start to go back for my degree, if I even can.

[joshh]

The problem I have with the oil companies here in the states is they control their own market.
I'm sure they paid Hippie groups to fight against them so they can't make any more refineries. Last one build was 1972.

[BlueBMW]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dont worry about getting a late start, I will be 32-33 by the time I can start to go back for my degree, if I even can.

That's what I said, better late than never!

My hope is that I can figure out a way to make alternative energy profitable and thus viable in the American economy.

[briansjacobs]

I think these alternatives serve their purpose. Do you know how cheap fuel would be if 50% of the cars on the road got 50MPG. With that said the computers we use today are many generations beyond what we had 15 years ago, but it took that inferior technology to make the technology that we are going to use 10 years from now. It is the same for cars. The Prius is going to make driving my 5mpg E30 a little more easy at a current price of $8-$10 per gallon. I remeber when I only paid $5 per gallon for Sunoco 100 GT. And it is the same for energy, Solar and wind systems are not what they used to be, I have a friend that owns a wind farm and is part owner in a few nuclear plants in Europe as well as being friends with two of the largest Ethanol petroleum traders in the states. Their opinions are fairly consistent, we could rid the US of all foreign energy in 5-10 years, but no one wants to pay for it!