It really is Bush's fault

[structured]

I don't think that you can compare the Iraq/Afgan price tags directly to the cost of the stimulus package. I mean, the stimulus was money injected directly into our own economy while the war money was sent overseas.

Sure, some of the war money comes back to the US through American companies, but it can't me more cost effective than putting the money directly into our economy in the first place.

I don't mean to start up the stimulus or war debate. I just want to say that I don't think that you can't really compare them without some more in depth financial analysis. To put it simply, they are apples and oranges and a dollar for dollar comparison doesn't work.

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You really think stimilus has done anything. You have to remember that all that war monize was paid American citizens, it was paid to US contractors building, maintaining developing and tech, yadda yadda yadda. All getting dumped into the US economy. You think the stimulus has has any good effect.

[akinswonder]

I was joking about Carter, I was tossing a name out that most like to pick on his presidency years. He was dealt a real bad time to be president double digit inflation, high enemployment, an oil embargo, and so on it just goes on and on.

Couldn't the same be said for Obama. Obama basically picked up where Bush left off and it wasn't exactly squeaky clean. Looking from the outside I could c problems coming as soon as he became president, just becuase of the mess that was already on ground

[structured]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You really think stimilus has done anything. You have to remember that all that war monize was paid American citizens, it was paid to US contractors building, maintaining developing and tech, yadda yadda yadda. All getting dumped into the US economy. You think the stimulus has has any good effect.

Let's be honest, not all of the money sent to the Middle East is coming back. Munitions, bombs, fuel, and infrastructure stay there. I don't know what percentage of the total cost is made up from those types of things, but I assume that it is considerable.

And, yes, I know that the stimulus has accomplished something. I personally know several people who have relied directly on stimulus funds (myself included) in order to stay employed. I take that money and pay my rent, buy food, and waste the rest on a stupid 23 year old car, and all of those things help to further stimulate the economy. Without stimulus for infrastructure projects, myself and hundreds of other engineers, contractors, and managers would be sitting on the unemployment line and not contributing anything to our country.

[mrsleeve]

Let's be honest, not all of the money sent to the Middle East is coming back. Munitions, bombs, fuel, and infrastructure stay there. I don't know what percentage of the total cost is made up from those types of things, but I assume that it is considerable.

Right, but who builds all of that those munitions, and other consumables??? Yes there is much that will be "invested there and not come back"


[QUOTE=structuredAnd, yes, I know that the stimulus has accomplished something. I personally know several people who have relied directly on stimulus funds (myself included) in order to stay employed. I take that money and pay my rent, buy food, and waste the rest on a stupid 23 year old car, and all of those things help to further stimulate the economy. Without stimulus for infrastructure projects, myself and hundreds of other engineers, contractors, and managers would be sitting on the unemployment line and not contributing anything to our country.[/QUOTE]

Hey I am in construction as well, and all the projects I have seen with paid for by stimuls act signs were just redoing shit that didnt need it and other shit that was in a sorry state of repair left to continue to rot.

Look man the stimiluls was not a good thing, and we will worse of for it. Should have let everything hit the skids, and then bottom out and come back on its own. It would have been tough and shitty, but we would be on our way up in 3-4 years, this has now been drug out into a closer to a decade, just like the last time.

[tonywonder]

FEAR, GREED, rap music, irresponsible lending and borrowing, Outsourcing of work, and possibly some illegals (but hard to say cuz they make things pretty damn cheap around here). One man cannot be solely responsible for the shit that has been happening. The American people were all a part of the situation we are in. We should stop blaming the other guy and try to figure out a way that as individuals we can help remedy our situation.

To me Price of War is a small price for Freedom. I dont blame Bush, I also dont think Obama is making things that much better.

[markseven]

It goes back much further than carter.

But for this particular issue and the cause that lead up too the straw that broke the proverbial camels back........................Yes Carter is fully to blame. Closely followed by Barny the fairy Muppet Frank and Chirs Dodd (or the combo I like to refer to as Frank-en-Dodd) and then our good buddie slick Willy

In fairness, Clinton left a budget surplus as he exited stage left. GWB then spent the surplus when he gave everyone a tax refund, which was a really dumb move, seeing as how $300 or whatever it was didn't make or break anyone.

[mrsleeve]

In fairness, Clinton left a budget surplus as he exited stage left. GWB then spent the surplus when he gave everyone a tax refund, which was a really dumb move, seeing as how $300 or whatever it was didn't make or break anyone.

While this is true, thats not the point of this thread. Clinton strengthened, the CRA which has a direct correlation to the Housing bubble.

Dont get me wrong willey did have some bright spots, but they are far outweighed by the bad. And tax cuts are whats best for the nation and citizenry.

[reelop19]

This thread is so one dimensional. "It was all Bushs' fault." Are you kidding me? Somebody wasn't paying attention when the housing shit was discussed a million times in this forum. As far as the wars go, the last I checked congress declares war not el presidento and they also create a budget. Now if you want to talk real numbers then look at how much a democrat majority in congress has spent compared to a republican one. And by the way the republicans taking over the house back in Clintons presidency saved him and all of us from god knows what socialism they would've thrown down our necks like they're doing today. But hey lets just generalize here because its not like the country is 234 years old. I mean the US started just recently right?

[deutschman]

i dont know why you guys keep blaming one person for all the mess we are in. it is not bush, and it is not oboma. it is our hole government. they are all corrupt mother fuckers looking to put money in their own pockets and the sooner all of you guys realize this and the fact that republicans and democrats are all the same you will be better off.

[Leaf]

Good post.

[mrsleeve]

i dont know why you guys keep blaming one person for all the mess we are in. it is not bush, and it is not oboma. it is our hole government. they are all corrupt mother fuckers looking to put money in their own pockets and the sooner all of you guys realize this and the fact that republicans and democrats are all the same you will be better off.

Yeah, most of us all realize this.

[ak-]

Meanwhile back on the farm, Mary was changing her overalls getting ready to milk Betsy...

[Ryan Stewart]

I don't think that you can compare the Iraq/Afgan price tags directly to the cost of the stimulus package. I mean, the stimulus was money injected directly into our own economy while the war money was sent overseas.

The stimulus costed like $400k per job they created and that is the number given by the architects of it. War means american defense firms and logistics firms supply a military consisting of Americans. So a vast majority of the money ends up back in american hands.

And the stimulus was injected in a year and the war was spread out over years and yet the stimulus only made a blip on the job losses and went more to govt waste than anything else.

[Ryan Stewart]

In fairness, Clinton left a budget surplus as he exited stage left. GWB then spent the surplus when he gave everyone a tax refund, which was a really dumb move, seeing as how $300 or whatever it was didn't make or break anyone.

A. again, congress appropriates funds and look who controlled congress during that record setting time of surplus.

B. Clinton was in charge while BinLaden was planning his party.

C. That $300 rebate was straight from the brain of the congressional leaders.

But I dont expect you to know those things. Its much easier to beat off to the president. Im sure you are like most other idiot Americans and dont even know how many senators we have, let alone what the senate actually does (asking you about the house would be unfair, too hard of a question).