FORBES controversial article: "How Obama Thinks"

[joshh]

I love the way Socialists have twisted the definition of Socialism to make people think it's soft and loveydovey.

"These are not the droids you're looking for."

[Wiglaf]

I love the way Socialists have twisted the definition of Socialism to make people think it's soft and loveydovey.

It might not be all "soft and loveydovey" but it's also not the fascist argument killing hammer that you guys make it out to be.

[markseven]

It might not be all "soft and loveydovey" but it's also not the fascist argument killing hammer that you guys make it out to be.

Has socialism worked in a democracy?

[kronus]

Has socialism worked in a democracy?

Sweden.

[markseven]

Sweden.

"The New Swedish Model: A Reform Agenda for Growth and the Environment"

Mr Fredrik Reinfeldt, Prime Minister of Sweden,

The London School of Economics and Political Science - February 26, 2008

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Then came Sweden's mad quarter of a century.

Growth fell off. Unemployment rose. The quality of welfare declined. What, then, were the factors that made the Swedish model stop working?

The economic downturn that followed the two oil crises in the 1970s of course had a negative impact on Sweden. Also, the financial crises and macroeconomic shocks of the early 1990s had substantial consequences for the Swedish economy.

But these shocks also affected other industrial countries. And it is difficult to argue that Sweden was particularly vulnerable to the international business cycle.

This alone cannot explain why Sweden fell from fourth place in the OECD's ranking of member countries by GDP per capita around 1970, to eighteenth place in 1997.

Instead, I would argue that the explanation lies in other factors.

The vital balance between the institutions in the model disappeared and socialism swept over Swedish society.

We saw budget deficits and high inflation undermine macroeconomic stability. In many respects this was the result of irresponsible and short-sighted political actions.

We saw a sharp rise in taxes, especially on labour, together with an expansion of benefit systems that undermined the work-first principle and made it less worthwhile to work.

The education system was distorted and Swedish schools focused less on knowledge.

Changes in international competition were met with subsidies rather than reforms. Free enterprise was not encouraged; instead it was questioned.

We saw a rise in unemployment and the percentage of working-age people supported by various social benefits and subsidies rose from 10 per cent in 1970 to about 20 per cent in the present decade.

What took a hundred years to build was nearly dismantled in twenty five years."

The entire speech is here:

http://www.sweden.gov.se/sb/d/10296/a/99193

[kronus]

^^ if you want to pick and choose from the PM's speech, so do I:

The education system plays a crucial role for every child's chances in life. Every child has the right to acquire the tools and values necessary to explore the world around her and to meet the demands of society.

To achieve this we are carrying out reforms in our education system that focus on knowledge and a commitment to quality.

We want the primary mission of the education system to be to convey knowledge. Every child must be given opportunities to achieve the basic goals in all subjects.

Oh no! Universal Edumacation! The horrible government wants to brainwash my children!

and a bit below that:

If exclusion from the labour market is our national challenge, the issue of the climate and the environment is the global challenge.

Global warming is for real. It's already happening. No one these days can be left unaffected by the reports or pictures. The reports and pictures that show us the serious consequences that lie in store for our planet and for future generations, if we do not succeed better in formulating a policy for sustainable development in the long term.

Sweden has a long tradition of taking an active and assertive role where environment policy is concerned. This is a tradition that Sweden intends to live up to and to do so with renewed vigour. At the same time, we are clear about the fact that the response to climate change requires a new political impulse.

After long having allowed environmental policy to be coloured by political deals involving regulations and non-growth policies, we see it as our task to create broad agreement around a new climate policy.

Global warming is real!!! Climate policy! Regulation! This is madness!


Swedish social democracy has functioned well since the 1930's. Currently, after four years of the conservative government, it still has much more social welfare and benefits than the U.S., including free universal health care. You have to appreciate the PM's comments in that context, not in the American context where "socialism" currently refers to "having nonzero taxes".

[markseven]

^^ if you want to pick and choose from the PM's speech, so do I:



Oh no! Universal Edumacation! The horrible government wants to brainwash my children!

and a bit below that:



Global warming is real!!! Climate policy! Regulation! This is madness!


Swedish social democracy has functioned well since the 1930's. Currently, after four years of the conservative government, it still has much more social welfare and benefits than the U.S., including free universal health care. You have to appreciate the PM's comments in that context, not in the American context where "socialism" currently refers to "having nonzero taxes".

My pick and choose was relevant to previous posts ;)

SD may have functioned well from the early 1900's -1970, but hasn't worked so well since.

[ck_taft325is]

So Kronus is a socialist? Or you agree with Socialist views and Governing Morality? You sir, are worse than the worst "loony bible thumpin' Christian".

[Vedubin01]

btw... Switzerland is smaller than the city of Chicago.... The United States has a lot more worthless trash than what fits inside of Chicago.


and a little note...

Switzerland has the toughest naturalization rules in Europe. If you want to become Swiss you must live in the country legally for at least 12 years—and pay taxes, and have no criminal record—before you can apply for citizenship. It still does not mean that your wish will be granted, however, and the fact that you were born in Zurich or Lugano does not make any difference. There are no "amnesties" and illegals are deported if caught. Even if an applicant satisfies all other conditions, the local community in which he resides has the final say: it can interview the applicant and hold a public vote before naturalization is approved. If rejected he can apply again, but only after ten years.

[kronus]

btw... Switzerland is smaller than the city of Chicago.... The United States has a lot more worthless trash than what fits inside of Chicago.


and a little note...

Switzerland has the toughest naturalization rules in Europe. If you want to become Swiss you must live in the country legally for at least 12 years—and pay taxes, and have no criminal record—before you can apply for citizenship. It still does not mean that your wish will be granted, however, and the fact that you were born in Zurich or Lugano does not make any difference. There are no "amnesties" and illegals are deported if caught. Even if an applicant satisfies all other conditions, the local community in which he resides has the final say: it can interview the applicant and hold a public vote before naturalization is approved. If rejected he can apply again, but only after ten years.

You're obviously aware that Sweden and Switzerland are completely different countries.

[kronus]

So Kronus is a socialist? Or you agree with Socialist views and Governing Morality? You sir, are worse than the worst "loony bible thumpin' Christian".

I'm as much a socialist as you are a loony bible thumpin' Christian. I hope the implication is clear.

Also, I'm not sure where I mentioned agreeing with "Governing Morality", a historically loony bible thumpin' past-time.

Also also, I'm happy to see that you are ignorant enough to attempt to rubber-stamp "socialist" on everything. The over-simplification suits you.

[Vedubin01]

You're obviously aware that Sweden and Switzerland are completely different countries.

That I do but as I was reading over your post, I was just reading up on Switzerland.

I know the difference from a Volvo and a Swiss watch


btw... Sweden is still the same size as Chicago...

[ck_taft325is]

Socialist's are all about Governing morality, bud. Their morality they impose upon society. I.e. Health Care for everyone at everyone elses expense. How are you not connecting the dots?

Strange how you imply that I'm a Bible Thumpin' Loony Christian but I've yet to prostalitize anyone here nor make my views on things anymore about God besides calling for a mediocrum of respect in regards to how some voice their opinions. I've yet to post a 101 quotes from Christian's in reference to Athiests, or in your case, Socialist Commies.

I could care less how you live your life but I do feel that people who love and care about you, if there are any, should tell you the truth. And if the truth is, dating a herpes infested hooker because she has large tits is in fact, dangerous, I hope someone, no no, I pray someone that's close let's you know that despite your reaction. Calling out wrong doing and evil men is has less to do with my "religious" orientation or "sense" of morality and more about doing the right thing. Something I hope everyone would do regardless of "religious" bent. But, you wrongfully discredit me because I've been open? Mmm. Strange, I don't discredit your views except when they truly are unproven falsehoods or lies. Such as Commie Ideal loving jerk offs like to propogate. It's no one's fault but you're own and anyone that adheres to the Socialist view is claiming that someone owe's them something. So, start living your convictions. My Paypal is ck_taft@hotmail.com and I've got a wife and child at home while I'm facing a lay off. None of that "rationalizing" away of my need by saying I was productive or "smart" enough to get a more stable job. I've busted my ass and continue to do so. There's no harm in getting your hands dirty, but sometimes things just don't work out and we're, "in need". So, I expect you to toss me 10% or so of your monthly wages to help me.

That's what your "convictions" in relation to everyone else call for. Live it. My Paypal is waiting.

[kronus]

My pick and choose was relevant to previous posts ;)

My point was that the Conservative Swedish PM's opinions on social issues show that his speech was given from a viewpoint that is much farther to the left than you seemed to imply. In accordance, what he calls "socialism" refers to something significantly more socialist than Sweden's present state, and his efforts in moving back from that cliff have put Sweden in a position that still very much a social democracy. In short, he doesn't agree with you.

SD may have functioned well from the early 1900's -1970, but hasn't worked so well since.

It's working out pretty well for the Swedish people these days.

[Vedubin01]

It's working out pretty well for the Swedish people these days.

You should start applying!