Drug war in Mexico: Do you think the US should jump in?

[Raxe]

You're right.

We don't have a perfectly clear example of how successful banning a product is that people want to use.

I guess everyone forgets the incredible success that was Prohibition.

Apples to oranges. Alcohol is not cocaine, heroin or methamphetamine.

Ever met junkies? That's a stupid argument because you and I both know it's false. You think Government regulated, taxed, distributed ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING drugs would suddenly, *poof* miracle cure the "violence" that's around due to drugs?

The violence of drugs has less and less to do with the drugs and more about the money to BUY them. Obviously you've been a bit privlidged and haven't ever lived this extent of humanity. You can't fake your way into it either, you either have or you haven't. You'll realize it's about the fix. Not about hurting anyone else unless it means blowing up their chance at a fix.

We're not talking Pot. We're talking heavily addictive substances. HEAVILY. As in changes your brain chemistry. Think about it. The need for money would still be a powerful, if not even more of a powerful factor in the violence that does erupt over the money to buy said drugs.

[Streichholzschächtelchen]

Why should we jump in? We have enough problems in fucking america, hell we have mexican trouble here, they don't need licenses, to pay insurance or apparently even become a citizen to reap the benefits of this country. You have to press 1 for spanish and 2 for english for crying out loud. Why not solve our border issue before fixing their troubles on their land? Why are we helping every other country out while our country goes down the drain? Is the rest of the world unable to help anyone? How about this, mexico solves problems in mexico, america solves america's problems, and if a country other than the united states wants to jump in and lend a helping hand for once let them. We have enough of our own issues.

1000th post

[bdracing]

Decriminialize all drugs. Bam problem solved. Let people make up their own minds about drugs

[KenC]

Decriminialize all drugs. Bam problem solved. Let people make up their own minds about drugs

+1 vote for most ignorant/uninformed post of 2011

[frankenbeemer]

+1 vote for most ignorant/uninformed post of 2011

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2011/01/16/drug_experiment/

[frankenbeemer]

Cliff Notes

What happens when an entire country legalizes drug use?

Portugal’s elected officials took a bold step. They decided to decriminalize the possession of all illicit drugs — from marijuana to heroin — but continue to impose criminal sanctions on distribution and trafficking. The goal: easing the burden on the nation’s criminal justice system and improving the people’s overall health by treating addiction as an illness, not a crime.

Often, there are lot of fears, misconceptions, and mythology around decriminalization and what might be the consequences,” Hughes said. “This reform has shown that it is possible to decriminalize illicit drugs...without necessarily increasingly drug-related harm, without increasing the burden on the criminal justice system, and without increasing drug use.”

Goulão (Portugal's Drug Czar) himself cautions against decriminalizing drugs without offering what he called “the whole package”: expanded treatment services, increased prevention measures, and a nationalized effort to attack drug addiction, and its consequences, as a public health problem, not a criminal justice issue. “There’s no choice,” he said, “in becoming an addict.”

[frankenbeemer]

Why should we jump in? We have enough problems in fucking america, hell we have mexican trouble here, they don't need licenses, to pay insurance or apparently even become a citizen to reap the benefits of this country. You have to press 1 for spanish and 2 for english for crying out loud. Why not solve our border issue before fixing their troubles on their land? Why are we helping every other country out while our country goes down the drain? Is the rest of the world unable to help anyone? How about this, mexico solves problems in mexico, america solves america's problems, and if a country other than the united states wants to jump in and lend a helping hand for once let them. We have enough of our own issues.

1000th post

"The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign nations, is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. Europe has a set of primary interests, which to us have none, or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities."

George Washington's farewell address.

"peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none."

Thomas Jefferson's inaugural address.

[KenC]

What happens when an entire country legalizes drug use?

Portugal’s elected officials took a bold step. They decided to decriminalize the possession of all illicit drugs — from marijuana to heroin — but continue to impose criminal sanctions on distribution and trafficking. The goal: easing the burden on the nation’s criminal justice system and improving the people’s overall health by treating addiction as an illness, not a crime.

Often, there are lot of fears, misconceptions, and mythology around decriminalization and what might be the consequences,” Hughes said. “This reform has shown that it is possible to decriminalize illicit drugs...without necessarily increasingly drug-related harm, without increasing the burden on the criminal justice system, and without increasing drug use.”

Goulão (Portugal's Drug Czar) himself cautions against decriminalizing drugs without offering what he called “the whole package”: expanded treatment services, increased prevention measures, and a nationalized effort to attack drug addiction, and its consequences, as a public health problem, not a criminal justice issue. “There’s no choice,” he said, “in becoming an addict.”

That's not complete legalization. I agree that we should adopt something similar. It costs too much to deal with arresting addicts, and doesn't do much to solve the problem. Addiction is indeed a disease that needs to be treated as such.

[frankenbeemer]

That's not complete legalization. I agree that we should adopt something similar. It costs too much to deal with arresting addicts, and doesn't do much to solve the problem. Addiction is indeed a disease that needs to be treated as such.

Agreed. Here is a 2009 article on Portugal's approach: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/gl...03/14/portugal

From that article:

"There is clearly a growing recognition around the world and even in the U.S. that, strictly on empirical grounds, criminalization approaches to drug usage and, especially, the "War on Drugs," are abject failures, because they worsen the exact problems they are ostensibly intended to address. "Strictly on empirical grounds" means excluding from the assessment: (a) ideological questions regarding the legitimacy of imprisoning adults for consuming drugs they choose to consume; (b) the evisceration of Constitutional and civil liberties wrought by drug criminalization; and (c) the extraordinary sums of money devoted to the War on Drugs both domestically and internationally."

I read the article and it left me wondering. If you eliminate a, b, and c as above, what empirical grounds are you left with?

[bdracing]

+1 vote for most ignorant/uninformed post of 2011

Glad I could start a convo on the decriminalization of drugs. Most people are universally opposed to this and have no idea what they are talking about. It has been done and proven to work. We would not only save money because of a reduction in crime and fighting that crime, we would make make honest business men out of the used-to-be drug lords and dealers. Also, some of the money saved can be used to help treat people with addiction. Its not as cool when its legal. So while I am very informed on the topic being a libertarian you sir have a biased uninformed opinion.

[KenC]

Glad I could start a convo on the decriminalization of drugs. Most people are universally opposed to this and have no idea what they are talking about. It has been done and proven to work. We would not only save money because of a reduction in crime and fighting that crime, we would make make honest business men out of the used-to-be drug lords and dealers. Also, some of the money saved can be used to help treat people with addiction. Its not as cool when its legal. So while I am very informed on the topic being a libertarian you sir have a biased uninformed opinion.

What is the title of the Ayn Rand book in which you live?

Are you advocating decriminalization for possession? Or complete legalization including trafficking and distribution?

[b*saint]

No I think drugs are what makes Mexico so fun to visit.

[bdracing]

I'm advocating whatever you want me to advocate KenC

[KenC]

I'm advocating whatever you want me to advocate KenC

I'm advocating for you to answer a question with a coherent thought.

[416stroker]

No I think drugs are what makes Mexico so fun to visit.

I agree