Drug war in Mexico: Do you think the US should jump in?

[bdracing]

You know what else is legal in Mexico? Steroids. A completely harmless drug to society that has been demonized because of professional sports.

[bdracing]

KenC, I'm as coherent as Oregon Basketballs new court

[lga714]

legalize all of it.

[KenC]

KenC, I'm as coherent as Oregon Basketballs new court

So not very? Glad you recognize that as well.

[bdracing]

A bunch of peeps on here have posted good info about Portugal and lets not forget the Netherlands. Dude don't get all pissy because you don't like which way this convo is headed. What's going down here is an unstopable force (drugs) and you sir are not the immoveable object that will stand in its way.

[KenC]

You don't seem to realize the distinction between decriminalizing possession of drugs and full-blown legalization of them.


Portugal has decriminalized possession, however, trafficking and distribution of mass amounts is still illegal.
I'd be in favor of a similar system. However, allowing entities to openly produce and sell drugs on a massive scale is a detriment to any country.

[Massimo]

You don't seem to realize the distinction between decriminalizing possession of drugs and full-blown legalization of them.


Portugal has decriminalized possession, however, trafficking and distribution of mass amounts is still illegal.
I'd be in favor of a similar system. However, allowing entities to openly produce and sell drugs on a massive scale is a detriment to any country.

This makes sense I would be one to support this to help the situation in your own country. But to solve the problem in Mexico decriminalizing possession will not help.

There will still be sellers with goods from Mexico and since it would not be illegal to have drugs there would be an increase in buyers. Even if you changed the laws that if you were found with possessions to sell with a minimum sentence of life, there would still be sellers because the cartel will ether pay them more to sell or force them to sell by kidnapping family members and what not.

To stop the problem in Mexico you need to remove the buyer from the market. Although this is an expensive alternative and probably one not favoured by many. But if you got a minimum sentence of 5 years for possession or a massive fine like $100,000 (I am over exaggerating here), then I think there would be a mass decline in sales as the majority of users would find it to risky to do drugs, as most users have jobs, houses, partners ect.

I know you are all saying what about the addicts well they are a small majority of drug users and 5 years in jail would do them good. I just don't see how decriminalizing possession of drugs in the USA would help the problem with Mexico.

[bdracing]

You don't seem to realize the distinction between decriminalizing possession of drugs and full-blown legalization of them.


Portugal has decriminalized possession, however, trafficking and distribution of mass amounts is still illegal.
I'd be in favor of a similar system. However, allowing entities to openly produce and sell drugs on a massive scale is a detriment to any country.

Marijuana is already big business in California, just a few states away big guy.

[KenC]

I don't really have a problem at all with marijuana. Stoners don't steal cars and/or commit violent crimes for a joint.

[Ryann]

A bunch of peeps on here have posted good info about Portugal and lets not forget the Netherlands. Dude don't get all pissy because you don't like which way this convo is headed. What's going down here is an unstopable force (drugs) and you sir are not the immoveable object that will stand in its way.

Ken's simply asking you to clarify your position on legalization.

Seems to me like the Mexican drug cartel problem and associated violence isn't as much about the drugs as it is the cartels' desire to control and monopolize the traffic. How do the positive effects of legalization translate?

[bdracing]

Drugs are big business...BIG BUSINESS (I capitalize to stress my point). Do you know who has the biggest demands for drugs? USA. Drugs are big everywhere but our demand for them makes it a violent business because they are illegal. Arguing that drugs cause people to commit violent crimes is stupid because people commit violent crimes everyday without drugs. If they were legalized they would be cheaper and the money saved by not fighting them can be used to rehab individuals. Anybody remember the abolition of alcohol? Didn't work so well. Same is true of drugs. All of you just think it would be such a terrible thing because somebody told you it would be. Speaking of alcohol....why is it that cigarettes and alcohol are legal and kill so many every year? Way more than illegal drugs. Now thats something to really think about.

[Raxe]

Drugs are big business...BIG BUSINESS (I capitalize to stress my point). Do you know who has the biggest demands for drugs? USA. Drugs are big everywhere but our demand for them makes it a violent business because they are illegal. Arguing that drugs cause people to commit violent crimes is stupid because people commit violent crimes everyday without drugs. If they were legalized they would be cheaper and the money saved by not fighting them can be used to rehab individuals. Anybody remember the abolition of alcohol? Didn't work so well. Same is true of drugs. All of you just think it would be such a terrible thing because somebody told you it would be. Speaking of alcohol....why is it that cigarettes and alcohol are legal and kill so many every year? Way more than illegal drugs. Now thats something to really think about.

Maaaaaaaybe because you can buy cigarettes and alcohol on every corner.

Derp de derp derp.

[VasFinest]

I definitely want drugs to be legalized. I'd love to walk outside and see people strung out on crack/heroine/meth. That's pretty much my ideal world....

[Nic01101011]

I definitely want drugs to be legalized. I'd love to walk outside and see people strung out on crack/heroine/meth. That's pretty much my ideal world....

And that's exactly what would happen. :roll:

The excessive violence is due to the drugs being illegal, not the nature of the end user. It's the exact same thing as prohibition. Were drugs legalized and produced in the US, the demand for drugs from Mexico would be gone, and I don't think the Mexican cartels would attack their "legitimate" American competition.

It's strange to think about big American companies producing drugs like cocaine. But then again they used to (meth, heroin, cocaine were all legal at one point), and companies manufacture cigs and alcohol so it's not that strange.

I do think it'd cut down on some of the violence..
But I think it could be a bad idea for other reasons.
And decriminalizing it would do nothing to remove the violence. Though I like the idea of not living in a nanny state, knowing where the drugs come from makes it morally difficult.

[ck_taft325is]

And that's exactly what would happen. :roll:

The excessive violence is due to the drugs being illegal, not the nature of the end user. It's the exact same thing as prohibition. Were drugs legalized and produced in the US, the demand for drugs from Mexico would be gone, and I don't think the Mexican cartels would attack their "legitimate" American competition.

It's strange to think about big American companies producing drugs like cocaine. But then again they used to (meth, heroin, cocaine were all legal at one point), and companies manufacture cigs and alcohol so it's not that strange.

I do think it'd cut down on some of the violence..
But I think it could be a bad idea for other reasons.
And decriminalizing it would do nothing to remove the violence. Though I like the idea of not living in a nanny state, knowing where the drugs come from makes it morally difficult.

A whole fuck load of the blind leading the blind here. Some of you I'd hazard a guess at never being around having the "pleasure" of being involved in some of the workings of tweakers, addicts, dealers, ect... It's less the illegal factor and far more the chemical composition of these drugs, folks. Sorry, but you're flat out, dead wrong. Logically, this premise that legalization would end criminal behavior is incomplete. Not for a lack of smarts or intelligence, keep that in mind, it's just a lack of experience. And I don't fault anyone for it. But, you cannot reasonably claim to know or have a full understanding of what you're commenting on.

It's a far messier world than you whom I speak of think or even understand.

Decriminalization WOULD save money on court, police, and over all expenditures. Would it do ANYTHING to solve the issues with the people? No, I genuinly don't believe so. But, what you have to question when pursueing this line of reasoning/thought is what your end goal is here? Helping the people or lightening the burden placed on society by these people? Being righteous or good doesn't pay you. And while this is unfair, it's the reality of the world we live in and has been for ALL time. Not that this is an excuse, but it is a brutal reality that you have to accept if you truly wish to make any kind of difference in this world. You don't do it because it pays you, you do it because it's right. If it's all about what it gains you, you've missed the point entirely.

Full legalization would not solve this issue. That's a fact. Just because everyone turns a blind eye to any and everything doesn't mean it was solved.