If banning guns works.....

[dirtysix]

I am not angry at all, While I understand your position and the ( flawed) reasoning behind it.

I really fail to understand why so many continue to buy into to it lock stock and barrel, as its so counter common sense and reality its mind boggling

No it's not. It's counter to your common sense. To me it is utter common sense.
It seems that you're going to need to grasp this concept or you really will end up as the angry old man.

Yes I do listen to billy. No ones perfect.

[e30e]

I don't own a gun and I've never shot a gun; but I do support the right to own a gun. Whether its for personal protection, sport, or right wing nut conspiracy theory people. Most crimes with guns are done by guns illegally obtained, is it our countries fault that we produce guns. Yes. Is it our fault gun crime happens, yes. But our countries Constitution has granted this right; its not like everyday I'm facing gun violence. (I have lived in some shady ass areas and worked in shadier areas) I'm more likely to be hit by a car (I work near public roads) than shot, yet no one is out calling for an outright ban on cars because of car related deaths.

I can understand someone not agreeing with gun rights due to political or philosophical reasons but I continue to support the rights granted by the Constitution.

[Ryann]

If the banning of guns could actually eradicate ALL FIREARMS from existence, then yes. It would prevent all shooting deaths, intentional or otherwise.

So obviously banning guns is a fucking stupid idea.

[dirtysix]

I don't own a gun and I've never shot a gun; but I do support the right to own a gun. Whether its for personal protection, sport, or right wing nut conspiracy theory people. Most crimes with guns are done by guns illegally obtained, is it our countries fault that we produce guns. Yes. Is it our fault gun crime happens, yes. But our countries Constitution has granted this right; its not like everyday I'm facing gun violence. (I have lived in some shady ass areas and worked in shadier areas) I'm more likely to be hit by a car (I work near public roads) than shot, yet no one is out calling for an outright ban on cars because of car related deaths.

I can understand someone not agreeing with gun rights due to political or philosophical reasons but I continue to support the rights granted by the Constitution.

Here's another fundamental difference between The US and NZ.
We have no formal constitution, only a bill of rights that demands that law must adhere to basic human rights.
There is nothing to say that a New Zealander is guaranteed the right to firearms.

[Vedubin01]

There is nothing to say that a New Zealander is guaranteed the right to firearms.

America Fuck Yeah!

[mrsleeve]

No it's not. It's counter to your common sense. To me it is utter common sense.
It seems that you're going to need to grasp this concept or you really will end up as the angry old man.

Yes I do listen to billy. No ones perfect.

I am sorry I have a hard time with stupid, and when something as basic as defending myself or my family from someone that wishes them harm FOR ANY REASON is infringed falls into the STUPID category, not to mention basic human rights. Why should that right and my ability to do so end and my property line?????? Why do I have to put my life in the hands of the police (that here in the states) have NO DUTY to protect you from harm.

(linky even from the NYT too )

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/po.../28scotus.html

I am sorry but I put 100% faith in 1 person to keep my family and self Safe from those that would wish harm on anyone of US and that is ME and I carry a weapon to ensure that if that unfortunate event should arise, I at least have the tools needed to at least keeps the odds even.

Its not that I go looking for trouble or spend time in the bad side of town, or want something to happen. Every day I step outta the house with that weapon on I pray today is not the day I need it Its there if that day ever happens.


Oh and you cant ban guns and expect them all to go away, I can go hit the hardwear store and build projectile weapons for about 25 bucks in supplies, not to mention all kinds of other bad shit for even less.

[shiftbmw]

how paranoid are you? ive seen some shady characters in my day but i know how to avoid situations/areas where actual violent crime exists. its not that i am naive that there aren't violent people out there (all humans are). i however don't have the false sense of security that a gun provides, and therefore am a bit more tactful about the places, people, and situations i choose to put myself in.

It only takes once, and while you can improve your chances of avoiding a bad situation with some street smarts, there is never any guarantee.

You can be an excellent driver who avoids dangerous situations on the road, but that doesn't prevent someone from running a red light and hitting you or someone from rear ending you. Sure, you make it very unlikely that you will be in an accident, but you still put your seatbelt on every time you drive don't you?

[Ray Smoodiver]

I dont believe that we view firearms as defensive tools, rather as tools for use in either recreational or commercial activities ie; hunting or farming.

Guns are still readily available to those who have a need or want through the licensing system so there are few restrictions to me owning a gun.

1 firearm for every 4 people, and we still manage only 2 firearms deaths per 100,100... What the fuck are we doing wrong?!?!

I think a major point that gets lost in translation between US / NZ gun laws are our ultra restrictive pistol laws:

A special license is required by dealers, collectors, pistol club members, and owners of certain semi-automatic firearms. Less than 3% of all firearms owners have such endorsements and they must comply with much more stringent conditions than sporting firearms license holders.

Furthermore:

Applicant must be a current member of a pistol club, a financial member of Pistol New Zealand (or in some cases membership of an approved club) and have attended at least 12 club shoots in the last 6 months before they can apply
Applicant must be sponsored by their club
The endorsement holder must attend at least 12 club activities (either at their home club or to another recognised club) in a financial year
Normally limited to no more than 12 pistols registered to their licence
Pistols must be of an approved sporting type i.e. barrel length of more than 10 cm (3.9 in)
Pistols can only be carried to and from the range in a locked container with ammunition in a separate container or to a gunsmith
Pistols may only be shot on a Police approved pistol club range.

Basically, getting a pistol is nigh on impossible - it's also pretty frowned upon to be seen in public with a firearm, so if you're spotted with a weapon that isn't in its case etc etc, chances are, the cops are going to get called.

Guns are tools downunder, not defensive weapons.

Oh and CtrlVdubin, almost 100% of kiwis have fired a gun by the time they're 12 or 13 - be it out hunting or target shooting. We're a rural country - animals get slaughtered for dinner, pests get shot, and the world keeps turning. Suggesting that people who want guns outlawed / placed under strict control haven't ever fired one is a pretty weak argument.

MrSleeve, how is the DirtySixes reasoning flawed? Because you're reading his comments and applying an american bent to them? His reasoning works perfectly well for the country he lives in. Describing them as flawed when you've never lived or even visited that country is erroneous at best.

[CHIF8008]

Guns don't kill people,people kill people.

wrong, death kills people. its a proven medical fact-you can only die from death.

[dkbmxer002]

i will continue to own as many guns as i can afford. i will continue to keep myself safe. i will be damn fucking proud to live in a country where i can do so and i will never live in a city that doesn't give me the right to arm myself when i step outside my house.

[Vedubin01]

Oh and CtrlVdubin, almost 100% of kiwis have fired a gun by the time they're 12 or 13 - be it out hunting or target shooting. We're a rural country - animals get slaughtered for dinner, pests get shot, and the world keeps turning. Suggesting that people who want guns outlawed / placed under strict control haven't ever fired one is a pretty weak argument.

ok funny guy, in my experience I have found that most people that are Anti-Gun in the States have never fired a firearm, never grew up with firearms in the house, or have been affected negatively by a crime or an accident surrounding a firearm. They are afraid of things they dont understand or have been adversely affected by such firearm.

The reason guns will never be banned is because our founding fathers understood the necessity of gun ownership. Ownership with out licensing. For the simple fact that its to protect its citizens against its own Government.

Now if you want to get into the NFA firearms, you do have to go though an extensive background check, pay a big tax, wait a really long time, and are limited to where you can shoot. I feel these firearms are ok to be classified the way they are. But it does go against and is in violation of the Constitution.


If I was to think about killing people it would not be with a firearm. My crew cab F350 would cause more carnage if I were to jump a sidewalk packed full of people. If I got caught I could just say I fell a sleep and try to get a manslaughter charge vs a Capital 1 murder charge.


Just to give you an idea.... this is what a NFA firearm is. Its what $13k USD buys you along with the wait and tax paid. 100% legal to own for those that pass and can afford. This is my brother shooting my NFA rifle during Thanksgiving on our family farm!

http://www.youtube.com/user/EliteBarSchool#p/u/3/ysboLZNQMFM

[slammin.e28]

So. By banning guns what do we accomplish?

Maybe we should ban cars? They kill more people per year than guns. (Forgot source, I'm searching!)

Hell, lets ban people. They created guns and cars and other ways of killing.

I think I'm on to something here.

Also, one of the reasons Japan didn't mount a full on invasion of the US West coast?

They knew of our Second Amendment. They knew that the US people would take up arms against them. Whats worse, fighting a army, or fighting the whole damn country?

[CorvallisBMW]

Well then your opinion is based on a false reality, (a product of several generations expanding govts and public education run by said government)


And if you are walking around all the time assuming that no one will ever try to fuck with you. Then you are fool, you are just the target those that criminals are looking for.

Relying on the cops to protect you is also a folly and fools errand, you can only rely on 1 person to take care of you, and thats YOU. You want to put your life and those of you family in the hands of the police thats your prerogative.

Just remember when seconds mean life or death.......................the police are only minuets away.

Wow, talk about paranoid-schizophrenic, yikes! This isn't the wild fucking west, it's the USA. In the 21st century. You don't need to carry your six-shooter in case someone challenges you to a duel at high noon

[Farbin Kaiber]

You don't live in a rural area, do you?


Last night I walked my yard with a firearm, a pack of cougars was spotted out in the neighborhood, and had emptied out two chicken coops, a horse, and a goat.

[slammin.e28]

You don't live in a rural area, do you?


Last night I walked my yard with a firearm, a pack of cougars was spotted out in the neighborhood, and had emptied out two chicken coops, a horse, and a goat.

We have a $50-$75 bounty on coyotes here. They're getting into the chickens, etc on the farms around my area.