Sales of the GM Volt.

[BraveUlysses]

gwb has not and never will run out of bullshit

[joshh]

Why brush off so quickly the fact that you are absolutely clueless when it comes to the auto industry and should just be quiet already? You think that flexible manufacturing systems are a sign of weakness - that, and everything else in this thread demonstrate that you exclusively operate on ignorance and what conservative simplistic writers tell you to think.

I find it hilarious that so much of this thread focused on how the Leaf was cheaper and it would kill the Volt, yet it has gotten absolutely slaughtered in sales. People like extended range over pure EVs right now (although technology and culture shift may change that over time).


In the meantime, one doesn't have to wait for the Fusion Energi, the C-Max is now available and is the cheapest plug-in hybrid. Competition is competition, but the more PHEVs out there, the more it legitimizes the segment and that GM was the trend setter. http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...0102/207240401



C-Max PHEV: $29,995
Prius PHEV: $30,260
Volt PHEV: $32,495
(after rebates)

8% more for nearly double the EV-only range is pretty reasonable.

And there you go arguing with yourself again. So much of this thread that I had zero to do with. So keep arguing with yourself over leaf vs Volt sales there Chum.

How is it selling these days?

Oh, what? August was a record setting month? 25,975 Cruzes, plus 8703 Sonics, and 2630 Sparks. Record month for the Cruze even with more cheaper small cars internally competing. Overall, GM saw a 10% YOY increase in sales.


And the final number of Volts sold was 2831 in August. More than 9 times August 2011. And that monthly sales figure is greater than the Escalade, Regal, or Avalanche, and more than double the Corvette.

Word is that Volt will have its redesign for 2015 model. Since it has the most battery capacity of the PHEVs, it's most sensitive to battey price changes, so look forward to seeing what GenII will bring.

Oh good it finally beat out it's competitors again since way back in Sept of 2011.....for one month....but not by much. And it's never sold anywhere near what the Civic has in one month btw.

The Volt can have it's gen II and it too will have dismal sales because just like the gen I it's over priced (even with the Government subsidies). And that is it's biggest failure. And will continue to be till they do something real about it.
The Volt was a terrible business decision for a company who just got bailed out from nearly going bankrupt. But we've already gone over that and your terrible business sense keeps you thinking otherwise.

[rwh11385]

And there you go arguing with yourself again. So much of this thread that I had zero to do with. So keep arguing with yourself over leaf vs Volt sales there Chum.

Sorry, I didn't know this thread was dedicated to you just talking shit about the Volt with zero facts to go with it. The thread had become a discussion place for hybrids and PHEVs, and even renewable energy economics... before it spiraled down into a cesspool of RWNJs throwing turds of bad arguments at the wall to see what would stick. Comparing new PHEVs to the Volt ought to be part of the discussion, regardless of your lack of desire to be informed about anything before making judgements or baseless claims. More PHEVs also makes Romney's "car before its time has come" statement weaker.

If you want a place to endlessly talk shit about the Volt, without someone questioning poor logic or pointing out your bad understanding of the auto industry, go to a conservative blog to repeat yourself with people who think just like you (simple-mindedly) and not a forum for a discussion of topics from a variety of viewpoints...

Oh good it finally beat out it's competitors again since way back in Sept of 2011.....for one month....but not by much. And it's never sold anywhere near what the Civic has in one month btw.

O RLY? You have data to back up you up? Or like usual are you making claims without the regard for facts?

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/honda-civic-sales-figures.html

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/chevrolet-cruze-sales-figures.html

In the US, it's sold near what the Civic has in a lot of months, and beat it six times since May 2011. From January 2011 to now, the Civic has only sold 12% more in the US... that's not chump status being compared with one of the top selling cars in America.

Your original argument was that the one month drop in Cruze sales spelled doom for GM and it was going in the gutter, and now you completely lost track of that and focusing on comparing it to one of the best sellers period. Do you even remember what points you have tried to make in the past, or just endlessly ramble about whatever gets past the tinfoil and pops into your head?

The Volt can have it's gen II and it too will have dismal sales because just like the gen I it's over priced (even with the Government subsidies). And that is it's biggest failure. And will continue to be till they do something real about it.
The Volt was a terrible business decision for a company who just got bailed out from nearly going bankrupt. But we've already gone over that and your terrible business sense keeps you thinking otherwise.

How are you able to assert that the GenII is already overpriced? Through the magic of douchebaggery?

The opinion of someone who thinks that flexible manufacturing systems is a sign of weakness doesn't carry much weight when it comes to opinion about what is a terrible business decision in the auto industry. You're the one with no understanding of the business nor of business or economics in general, but you can assume anything that makes you happy - just no one besides your fellow RWNJs might agree with it.

[rwh11385]

gwb has not and never will run out of bullshit

Maybe not entirely, but sometimes he gets tired of the questioning of his "logic" and avoiding questions, so he just gives up.

ok, i am calling a truce with you rwh, or at least a unilateral truce

you apparently know more about econ than me, and i know more about the markets than you

so, to spare the rest of r3v from what has become a boring tit for tat, i will refrain from making you look foolish.

you can go about demeaning others as normal

[gwb72tii]

And taking a page out of gwb's playbook. . .
Ignoring valid questions about poor arguments / logic when he runs out of bullshit.

not at all rwh
you did not read the article if you think the run was all highway miles, that's the point. bmw even used air conditioning along the way. it was a real world test.
the fact is the volt is a loser car, as voted by the public.
gm interiors are about the most hideous creations i've ever looked at.
and the fact teh government needs to pay people to buy it says it all, no?

[rwh11385]

not at all rwh
you did not read the article if you think the run was all highway miles, that's the point. bmw even used air conditioning along the way. it was a real world test.
the fact is the volt is a loser car, as voted by the public.
gm interiors are about the most hideous creations i've ever looked at.
and the fact teh government needs to pay people to buy it says it all, no?

Map the route from London to Geneva and let me know what the vast majority of it takes place on...

OMG, A/C?!?!

The public that bought it instead of the Leaf? And 9X the volume from a year ago? And ownership satisfaction high and buyers are coming from premium brands to a Chevy... interior is nice enough for them (plus I like it). Have you driven the Volt or just reading conservative blogs about it, as usual?

The government has subsidized people to buy a lot of cars, now and previously. Did people need the Section 179 deduction to buy luxury SUVs?
Does the government need to subsidize oil companies to pump oil? Apparently they do? (Or just to give them more $$$ so contributions continue?)

[u3b3rg33k]

anybody even question why hybrids are necessary at all.
http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/...-run-20080317/

Seriously Broseph, where the diesel hybrids at?

Why the heck is D O E censored? if fuckface isn't, why is ***?

[rwh11385]

Seriously Broseph, where the diesel hybrids at?

Why the heck is D O E censored? if fuckface isn't, why is ***?

http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2011-01/vws-260-mpg-diesel-hybrid-concept-may-actually-get-built

VW's 260-MPG Diesel Hybrid Concept May Actually Get Built

LOL => The socal kids kept using it to be "though" or something, I dunno. It was so annoying, the mods blocked it, ha.

[gwb72tii]

^^
you own a volt don't you?

[u3b3rg33k]

Nope - just a 2002, e30, and R1100S, but I ask you again, where's the diesel hybrids at? assuming you get 30% better MPGs from the hybrid tech, (lets knock that down to 18% just for good measure), you could get up to 65mpg from a VW diesel - otherwise unmodified (i.e. aero).

[gwb72tii]

Nope - just a 2002, e30, and R1100S, but I ask you again, where's the diesel hybrids at? assuming you get 30% better MPGs from the hybrid tech, (lets knock that down to 18% just for good measure), you could get up to 65mpg from a VW diesel - otherwise unmodified (i.e. aero).

i'm going the other direction, looking for a 12cyl car :)

[Wiglaf]

Nope - just a 2002, e30, and R1100S, but I ask you again, where's the diesel hybrids at? assuming you get 30% better MPGs from the hybrid tech, (lets knock that down to 18% just for good measure), you could get up to 65mpg from a VW diesel - otherwise unmodified (i.e. aero).

I've been wondering this since hybrids first came out. It seems like such a no-brainer.. And highlights how they are really failing to jump in with both feet and take this seriously.

[u3b3rg33k]

i'm going the other direction, looking for a 12cyl car :)

Aren't we all? isn't the holy grail of non M3 e30s the dual M20 swap? Preferably the one with 500+hp, of course.

I've been wondering this since hybrids first came out. It seems like such a no-brainer.. And highlights how they are really failing to jump in with both feet and take this seriously.

What amazes me is that everywhere but here in NA, you can go buy a manual turbo diesel ford that looks good.

[joshh]

Sorry, I didn't know this thread was dedicated to you just talking shit about the Volt with zero facts to go with it. The thread had become a discussion place for hybrids and PHEVs, and even renewable energy economics... before it spiraled down into a cesspool of RWNJs throwing turds of bad arguments at the wall to see what would stick. Comparing new PHEVs to the Volt ought to be part of the discussion, regardless of your lack of desire to be informed about anything before making judgements or baseless claims. More PHEVs also makes Romney's "car before its time has come" statement weaker.

If you want a place to endlessly talk shit about the Volt, without someone questioning poor logic or pointing out your bad understanding of the auto industry, go to a conservative blog to repeat yourself with people who think just like you (simple-mindedly) and not a forum for a discussion of topics from a variety of viewpoints...

You mean how you go on rambling about points I never brought up....go on...now this is entertainment. I accept your apology.

O RLY? You have data to back up you up? Or like usual are you making claims without the regard for facts?

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/honda-civic-sales-figures.html

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/chevrolet-cruze-sales-figures.html

In the US, it's sold near what the Civic has in a lot of months, and beat it six times since May 2011. From January 2011 to now, the Civic has only sold 12% more in the US... that's not chump status being compared with one of the top selling cars in America.

Your original argument was that the one month drop in Cruze sales spelled doom for GM and it was going in the gutter, and now you completely lost track of that and focusing on comparing it to one of the best sellers period. Do you even remember what points you have tried to make in the past, or just endlessly ramble about whatever gets past the tinfoil and pops into your head?

Wait wait wait 33,490 is only 12% more than 25,975. Or have you forgotten of course that Japanese manufacturers were having a serious supply problem because of last years weather. Or you didn't even know...People were buying American because they pretty much had to at the time.

http://wot.motortrend.com/2012-honda-civic-leads-compact-sales-in-may-toyota-corolla-a-close-second-213727.html

Actually it's been slipping for several months. Comparing it to last year it's in a real slump. But go ahead and ignore that. Logic isn't your best suit.

How are you able to assert that the GenII is already overpriced? Through the magic of douchebaggery?

The opinion of someone who thinks that flexible manufacturing systems is a sign of weakness doesn't carry much weight when it comes to opinion about what is a terrible business decision in the auto industry. You're the one with no understanding of the business nor of business or economics in general, but you can assume anything that makes you happy - just no one besides your fellow RWNJs might agree with it.

Flexible manufacturing with a car that sells like crap cakes....there's your difference. They can afford to shut down building that car when it sells poorly. They need space to store all the cars (Volts on that line) they've made that aren't selling anyways. It'll give them a chance to sell off a couple thousand more Volts this next month.

[rwh11385]

You mean how you go on rambling about points I never brought up....go on...now this is entertainment. I accept your apology.

Are you the only person who has replied to this thread when you look at it??

Wait wait wait 33,490 is only 12% more than 25,975. Or have you forgotten of course that Japanese manufacturers were having a serious supply problem because of last years weather. Or you didn't even know...

http://wot.motortrend.com/2012-honda-civic-leads-compact-sales-in-may-toyota-corolla-a-close-second-213727.html

Actually it's been slipping for several months. Comparing it to last year it's in a real slump. But go ahead and ignore that. Logic isn't your best suit.

No, you illiterate, 433K is only 12% more than 386K.

Pretty sure I mentioned that several times in the GM thread...

So you would rather focus on a one month peak sales instead of 20 month totals? Or focus on a trend but ignore the most recent diversion from it?

You want to pose that I somehow wasn't aware of the Japan supply issues (although mentioning it in the GM thread), YET you then go a few lines later and want to say the Cruze sales are in a slump compared to when Japan had supply issues? Really? You telling someone doesn't have strong logical abilities is LAUGHABLE.

Like I mentioned, when you compare to the Civic or Camry, you are using a big yardstick... which is kinda a dumb basis. Cruze is still in the Top 5 for its segment. It's not like people are predicting horrible things because the Mazda3 didn't sell as much as the Camry or Civic.

Flexible manufacturing with a car that sells like crap cakes....there's your difference. They can afford to shut down building that car when it sells poorly. They need space to store all the cars (Volts on that line) they've made that aren't selling anyways. It'll give them a chance to sell off a couple thousand more Volts this next month.

Wow... you're like such an expert in this industry... how long have you worked in automotive manufacturing?


Hmmm... so you say that a car has to sell poorly to be able to be able to shut down production to re-tool...

Why not look at the #2 top selling vehicle in 2011?

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/new-silverado-is-nigh-gm-schedules-retooling-of-full-size-truck-plants-97047.html

According to the Detroit Free Press that starting in January, the plant in Fort Wayne, Indiana, responsible for building the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra, will shut down for nine weeks sometime between January and October.

Even Camry production retools. The prior generation retool took 45 days. (Current gen retool was sped up to only 15 but still needed to stop the machines to change them out in the process) Did you expect that they overnight start making the next generation of car?