Who pays taxes

[CorvallisBMW]

I am just dumbfounded with the lack of common sense on display here.

It's not about common sense, it's about facts. There have been several studies and links posted chock full of research and data to support why myself and others have been saying. Data > "common sense". 1000 years ago, "Common sense" was that the sun revolved around the earth, until someone used facts and data to prove otherwise

"Common Sense" for some people on this board seems suspiciously identical to "GOP talking points" or "political party mantras"

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hence your articles most of them have all been if = then comparisons that dont take into account for any other outside forces, global disasters, and changes in politics and what not

Kinda like this one

[gwb72tii]

it is not compassionate to rob peter to pay paul
it is not compassionate to enforce "fairness" at the expense of others
it is not compassionate to force people into government programs they don't want or need
it is not compassionate to teach people to rely on the government to make their lives "better"
it is not compassionate to empower government bureaucrats unfettered regulatory power that affects our lives
it is not compassionate to prevent failure

it is compassionate to provide a system of governance that allows all of us a chance of doing better for ourselves, something sorely missing in today's government, mostly a result of said bureaucrats and their regulations in the name of "fairness"

read this

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/04/19/peter-foster-keynesianism%E2%80%99s-systemic-failure/

[mar1t1me]

Let me just say if given a choice, I'd rather give away money to people who want an education than to give away money to billionaires.

But somehow I hear that it's important to keep giving money to billionaires because some people thinks it helps the little people. But it doesn't. Helping the little people is what helps little people. Take care of that, and the billionaires fortunes are assured.

Sleeve, depriving the gov't of revenue only hurts the marginalized, the elderly, the sick, etc, because those are the programs that always get cut first. Look at what's happening now: have you heard ANY serious talk of cutting corporate subsidies or any of the multitude of programs that benefit people already enrichened? All I hear is centers for the elderly having to close. Programs for the mentally handicapped shut down. "Sorry, there's no money for YOU. You don't have lobbyists and you didn't give us millions in campaign contributions, so fuck off."

Small business is the job creator is this economy. We might say, "How 'bout a 1.1% tax rate for us for a while?" But we hear "Nope, we can't afford to do that. Besides, why are you so greedy?"

[joshh]

The people here going on about "compassion" clearly have never known some of the people that are "poor"...I mean really poor. Many of them choose not to work. Many of them choose to take hand outs from Government. Many of them also supplement their income from Government by selling drugs and by other criminal means. Many simply don't want to do the work to get themselves out of that situation. Many of them wouldn't take a job if you handed it to them...because they don't need a job. Only those that have self worth want to work themselves up the ladder.

A friend of my wife's...her husband has been out of work for over a year. She makes well over 100k a year. Her husband is on unemployment. They live in the same house...and they just bought that house while he was collecting unemployment. Ok the guy paid into unemployment....but he's already taken out more than he's paid into it. Golly why is this country in so much debt?? The waste in entitlements is overwhelming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GqryVkPiKM

[z31maniac]

I think old man winter was the first to bring up compassion.

And we've gone through the whole "they are all lazy/don't want to work" crap.

Got anything new? Or just "gov't............bad...........meddling.......... ....."

[joshh]

I think old man winter was the first to bring up compassion.

And we've gone through the whole "they are all lazy/don't want to work" crap.

Got anything new? Or just "gov't............bad...........meddling.......... ....."

Kind of like the argument of "compassion'.
How do you have compassion for those who don't want to help themselves? No I'm not saying all those who are poor don't want to help themselves. But the fact is many do not. Or by the easiest of means=Government hand outs.

[87e30]

The differences come down to a very large disagreement of basic human rights.

Some believe everyone should have x standard of life if we can afford it (some even if we can't afford it...)

Others believe everyone should fend 100% for themselves.

Then those in between. Those differences are like morals, something which you can't really logically debate. It's an opinion based on one's own experiences and beliefs.

If we could just move beyond that and balance the budget one way or another that would be awesome... someone has to lose just fucking make everyone lose equally. Raise taxes and cut spending. No ones happy but everyone wins.

[z31maniac]

Kind of like the argument of "compassion'.
How do you have compassion for those who don't want to help themselves? No I'm not saying all those who are poor don't want to help themselves. But the fact is many do not. Or by the easiest of means=Government hand outs.

Again, not talking about compassion. You throw around the word "fact" pretty loosely.

[joshh]

The differences come down to a very large disagreement of basic human rights.

Some believe everyone should have x standard of life if we can afford it (some even if we can't afford it...)

Others believe everyone should fend 100% for themselves.

Then those in between. Those differences are like morals, something which you can't really logically debate. It's an opinion based on one's own experiences and beliefs.

If we could just move beyond that and balance the budget one way or another that would be awesome... someone has to lose just fucking make everyone lose equally. Raise taxes and cut spending. No ones happy but everyone wins.

That's the problem. Defense spending and Social Programs are the two largest spending expenditures we have. Can't do it without cutting one or both of those.
Yet the left thinks taxing the rich will cure all our problems. It's just factually wrong.

[joshh]

Again, not talking about compassion. You throw around the word "fact" pretty loosely.

Says the guy who said this....

And?

S&P is bought and paid for. Wall Street is in collusion with the media to bring down the stock market again, let Buffet/Soros and friends buy everything low again, then the media will magically report it's all better again.

[z31maniac]

Don't see anywhere in that statement that I used the word fact.

You think I really believe that.














































We all know it's the Bildergroup Group, really. ;)

[joshh]

Don't see anywhere in that statement that I used the word fact.

You think I really believe that.


We all know it's the Bildergroup Group, really. ;)

You missed it tin foil hatter. Don't poke others where you yourself have said stupid shit without proof. Move on...

[dirtysix]

The differences come down to a very large disagreement of basic human rights.

Some believe everyone should have x standard of life if we can afford it (some even if we can't afford it...)

Others believe everyone should fend 100% for themselves.

Then those in between. Those differences are like morals, something which you can't really logically debate. It's an opinion based on one's own experiences and beliefs.

If we could just move beyond that and balance the budget one way or another that would be awesome... someone has to lose just fucking make everyone lose equally. Raise taxes and cut spending. No ones happy but everyone wins.

That would be nice wouldn't it.
The way I see is, taxes are a necessary evil, graduated tax brackets are a necessary evil.
It's not nice, it's not fair, but life isn't fair and without it there can never be enough money to run an effective government.

As for the motivation, successful people are motivated by success, not because the next tax bracket is the same as previous one.

If that were true, there would be no successful in Aus. Their top tax bracket is 45% over $180000. And guess what? People still want to succeed!

[CorvallisBMW]

If that were true, there would be no successful in Aus. Their top tax bracket is 45% over $180000. And guess what? People still want to succeed!

No shit. They also have one of the world's best healthcare systems (I experienced it for myself), an unemployment rate of 4.8%, a booming economy and a populous that is far happier and healthier than that of the US.

And to think, some people say that the only way to economic and social prosperity is to cut tax rates for rich people

Taxes are NEVER a disincentive to working harder and making more money. No matter what tax bracket you may or may not move in to, you're still bringing home more money. Would any of our conservative commentators turn down a 50% raise from their boss because they didn't want to pay taxes on it? Of course not.