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    Originally posted by cale View Post
    That's not what sentience is, but I agree with your premise. Our intelligence should prioritize us over other species
    where i'm not sure i agree 100% is that we measure intelligence and sentience by our own self-defined metrics

    other primates and octopi have demonstrated learning, tool usage and creation, and other tasks that require what we define as intelligence

    , but I think it's imperative that also includes obligations we have to protect the Earth from our abuse of it. The latter is non-negotiable, and the crux of this AGW argument is whether or not we're actually doing that.
    ...absolute yes to this, and if we're not capable of being good custodians to this planet we happened to find ourselves on, are we actually intelligent?
    past:
    1989 325is (learner shitbox)
    1986 325e (turbo dorito)
    1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
    current:
    1985 323i baur (project to resume soon...)
    2013 ninja 300 (way more fun than a car)

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      Intelligence is absolutely a sliding scale. My understanding of biology is quite limited, but I don't believe there to be a switch that gets flicked which turns intelligence on or off in species, ours is simply more developed. I simply believe that there is such a distinct gap between us and the runner up, it would be foolish to suggest any other species should be prioritized over us. It isn't a matter of us vs. them in their entitery, because without them there is no us....but we sure as hell are at the top of the list. If the flood is coming and Noah's ark arrives, I'm making room for more people than I am animals. The 4.5 billion years the Earth has been around tells us that we are special unlike anything before us.

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        i think i like the word "unique" a little more than "special", but let's not go down the rabbit hole on that.

        the reality is that we're a variant of primate that, on a geological scale, just showed up a little while ago, and we are actively destructive to the environment we depend on to sustain us.

        maybe we are talking about the difference between "sentience" and "intelligence" here, because you can have the former without the latter.
        past:
        1989 325is (learner shitbox)
        1986 325e (turbo dorito)
        1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
        current:
        1985 323i baur (project to resume soon...)
        2013 ninja 300 (way more fun than a car)

        Comment


          I'm putting my money on cold fusion. If we can't figure that out within the next 20 years, by my calculations we're fucked no matter what.

          Unlimited free energy, think about it. Kind of hard to wrap my head around personally. Things that used to be impractical or inefficient will be done on a large scale with brute force. The only limiting factor will be material sciences. Technological advancement will go through the roof. Pair that with automation and AI, it is quite possible for humanity to completely eradicate poverty and hunger, while also preserving our environment. An ideal situation would be off planet mining, Mars colonization, etc.

          It's too bad we'll probably end up nuking each other to death fighting over that technology before it has the chance to save the planet.

          Comment


            Originally posted by 4x4_e30 View Post
            I'm putting my money on cold fusion. If we can't figure that out within the next 20 years, by my calculations we're fucked no matter what.

            Unlimited free energy, think about it. Kind of hard to wrap my head around personally. Things that used to be impractical or inefficient will be done on a large scale with brute force. The only limiting factor will be material sciences. Technological advancement will go through the roof. Pair that with automation and AI, it is quite possible for humanity to completely eradicate poverty and hunger, while also preserving our environment. An ideal situation would be off planet mining, Mars colonization, etc.

            It's too bad we'll probably end up nuking each other to death fighting over that technology before it has the chance to save the planet.
            I'm not in the camp who thinks "we're fucked" wrt AGW. Some people certainly are, global conflicts over food, arable land and water will become a greater issue for those with less and will cause major conflict. The developed world however, primarily North America will find a way around anything but the most catastrophic events.

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              interesting

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SZHUHkMYr4
              My Feedback

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                Originally posted by E30 Wagen View Post
                All it requires is money. Like every liberal solution, just feed it cash. Oh, and do it quickly now!
                Si vis pacem, para bellum.

                New Hawtness: 1995 540i/6 Claptrap
                Defunct too: Cirrusblau m30 Project
                Defunct (sold): Alta Vista

                79 Bronco SHTF Build

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                  Here are some more deniers.

                  https://clintel.nl/brief-clintel-aan-vn-baas-guterres/

                  Can you believe these people?
                  Si vis pacem, para bellum.

                  New Hawtness: 1995 540i/6 Claptrap
                  Defunct too: Cirrusblau m30 Project
                  Defunct (sold): Alta Vista

                  79 Bronco SHTF Build

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                    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/special...hange-n1054791

                    Here you go. Purge your guilt on the internet!

                    BTW the responses are the best ever.
                    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

                    New Hawtness: 1995 540i/6 Claptrap
                    Defunct too: Cirrusblau m30 Project
                    Defunct (sold): Alta Vista

                    79 Bronco SHTF Build

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                      Originally posted by decay View Post

                      where i'm not sure i agree 100% is that we measure intelligence and sentience by our own self-defined metrics

                      other primates and octopi have demonstrated learning, tool usage and creation, and other tasks that require what we define as intelligence



                      ...absolute yes to this, and if we're not capable of being good custodians to this planet we happened to find ourselves on, are we actually intelligent?
                      When an Octopus can build an e30...
                      Si vis pacem, para bellum.

                      New Hawtness: 1995 540i/6 Claptrap
                      Defunct too: Cirrusblau m30 Project
                      Defunct (sold): Alta Vista

                      79 Bronco SHTF Build

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by marshallnoise View Post

                        When an Octopus can build an e30...
                        Bring it on. I must have 8 arms.
                        john@m20guru.com
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                          Originally posted by decay View Post

                          where i'm not sure i agree 100% is that we measure intelligence and sentience by our own self-defined metrics

                          other primates and octopi have demonstrated learning, tool usage and creation, and other tasks that require what we define as intelligence

                          ...absolute yes to this, and if we're not capable of being good custodians to this planet we happened to find ourselves on, are we actually intelligent?
                          Sure, we define the metric, and so we are, individually at least. But I think we tend to not label things other than humans as intelligent, but rather as showing intelligence, which seems to be a convenient way to label them as showing some aspects of human intelligence, but not at the same level or above. Of course, we sometimes forget that every living thing is intelligent in a unique/specialized way, and probably one that we either can't quite comprehend, or achieve a similar level of ability in, no matter how long we might train.

                          However, we do seem to really lack the ability to conceive, manage, and resolve problems, to the benefit of the society as a whole, much outside of our individual spheres of habitation. Heck, even ants can do that effecively, so what are we by comparison?

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                            Originally posted by marshallnoise View Post

                            All it requires is money. Like every liberal solution, just feed it cash. Oh, and do it quickly now!
                            This is what the Chinese have used to "seed" clouds for A LONG time. I turned it off once she acted like this was some ground breaking piece of new knowledge.
                            Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
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                              well apparently this guy didn't get the message about the 97% consensus
                              https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/doom...lls-the-beans/
                              “There is nothing government can give you that it hasn’t taken from you in the first place”
                              Sir Winston Churchill

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                                That website is basically just a mixture of cliche crusty old white man shit for people who suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect.

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