Global Warming is over.

[gwb72tii]

The largest flaw is to assume that right now is the best it will get (like gwb does).

what? i never argued this stance. you're really good at verbose responses that wander from point to point, somehow arriving at a different place than the original post.
and yes, we, on the r3v, are essentially idiots about AGW. welcome to the club, even though your inflated ego won't let you admit it

[rwh11385]

what? i never argued this stance. you're really good at verbose responses that wander from point to point, somehow arriving at a different place than the original post.
and yes, we, on the r3v, are essentially idiots about AGW. welcome to the club, even though your inflated ego won't let you admit it

You argue about payback periods here and now and fail to see trends in cost. Or consider the fact that a payback period means that the variable cost of the electricity is lower.

That's why Walmart and Ikea and the others are using them. But you like to focus only on consumers when you bash solar.

nobody like to pay more than they have to for energy, and that's why with a few exceptions solar doesn't work.

That's a strong reason why solar will work in the future. But you concentrate on just now.


Not everyone is a complete idiot without the ability to read or pursue facts, as much as you assume you know the most in a cesspool of fools. Some of us also work in efficiency and tech, not selling mutual funds and reading ZeroHedge. But hey, why don't you go post WATTSUPWITHTHAT against Q5 some more, since he has to be uninformed on AGW too based on your assumption, right? Why are you arguing about something you admit that you are an idiot about?

[gwb72tii]

regarding the frontline program, a few observations that any skeptic, or anyone interested in the truth may want to know

the program was funded by left wing groups such as
1. The Kandeda Fund, a donor advised fund of the Tides Foundation, a left wing charity,org that funnels money anonymously to donor advised funds like Kaneda, Media Matters, MoveOn.org, and is supported by George Soros
2. The MacArthur Foundation, donates in part to the Tides Foundation among other left wing political action groups
3. The Park Foundation - a foundation that donates to a wide variety of left wing political action groups, including the Tides

in general, the frontline program was a hit-piece on the skeptics, without any of the same topics being covered regarding the left's various AGW groups. some of the programs main points, such as the Heartland Institute's funding from Exxon and others was flat out wrong. Or the repeated central theme mentioned again and again of the magical "97%" consensus which has been debunked and proven false.

regarding climategate, it was mentioned only to hammer the skeptics, without any followup rebuttal from skeptics about the emails, or Phil Jones admitting that the skeptics assertions about the emails is essentially correct.

for some reason the program highlighted Kathrine Hayhow, a climate research scientist if i recall, as a victim of freedom of information requests, like somehow FOI requests are bad etc., and the evil right are only out to get her.

oh, and the program did try to discredit the Oregon Petition, the one with over 31,000 signers doubting AGW, complete with many non-scientist signers (a valid criticism), but also complete with many many signers that specialize in climate science. no mention of any challenge to the 77 scientists that are the 97% of all climate scientist (LOL LOL LOL)

finally, i guess the program was just focusing on the skeptic side, so i will wait patiently for the next frontline program on the left's AGW alarmist propaganda funding sources. but my life expectancy is 95 years so i only have 37 years left. i won't hold my breath.

[rwh11385]

regarding the frontline program, a few observations that any skeptic, or anyone interested in the truth may want to know

the program was funded by left wing groups such as
1. The Kandeda Fund, a donor advised fund of the Tides Foundation, a left wing charity,org that funnels money anonymously to donor advised funds like Kaneda, Media Matters, MoveOn.org, and is supported by George Soros
2. The MacArthur Foundation, donates in part to the Tides Foundation among other left wing political action groups
3. The Park Foundation - a foundation that donates to a wide variety of left wing political action groups, including the Tides

in general, the frontline program was a hit-piece on the skeptics, without any of the same topics being covered regarding the left's various AGW groups. some of the programs main points, such as the Heartland Institute's funding from Exxon and others was flat out wrong. Or the repeated central theme mentioned again and again of the magical "97%" consensus which has been debunked and proven false.

regarding climategate, it was mentioned only to hammer the skeptics, without any followup rebuttal from skeptics about the emails, or Phil Jones admitting that the skeptics assertions about the emails is essentially correct.

for some reason the program highlighted Kathrine Hayhow, a climate research scientist if i recall, as a victim of freedom of information requests, like somehow FOI requests are bad etc., and the evil right are only out to get her.

finally, i guess the program was just focusing on the skeptic side, so i will wait patiently for the next frontline program on the left's AGW alarmist propaganda funding sources. but my life expectancy is 95 years so i only have 37 years left. i won't hold my breath.

So... change subjects?


Interesting choice to take on a media piece instead of actually ever answering my questions of your past argument about GRACE vs. ICEsat conclusion. Or explaining why you continue to argue about something you admit you are an idiot about.

Too bad you missed this year's Heartland conference on climate change, it was in Munich. http://heartland.org/press-releases/...imate-change-g

I'll stick to my apparently left-wing NASA and NOAA sources, personally.

[gwb72tii]

oops your ego gets in the way again rwh
the post wasn't meant for you

[rwh11385]

oops your ego gets in the way again rwh
the post wasn't meant for you

So instead of responding to questions, you change subjects on a completely new topic?

Must be hard to be your client with your attention span being that of a squirrel's and all investment decisions are based on a hatred of "the messiah".

[herbivor]

regarding the frontline program, a few observations that any skeptic, or anyone interested in the truth may want to know.

In impressed you finally watched it. I'm not surprised by your conclusion. It sounds like you got it straight from Glen Beck (are you two related?).

Anyway, your opinions don't matter, since they are so far removed from reality of what is currently happening right now. We've enjoyed several 70 degree days this December. My brother who lives in Vail is experiencing a crappy snow season start again. Every time I visit the amount of dead pine trees at higher elevations increases (due to the beetle that is not getting killed off due to lack of cold weather. ). 100 year Fires and drought are now the norm. Lightning has increased 6% (guess why). My buddy that lives in Maine is experiencing another mild Winter, 5th year in a row of an unusually warm winter and late start on snow. These things that used to be infrequent occurrences are now frequent occurrences. But you go ahead and keep telling yourself everything is normal.

[gwb72tii]

you asked me to watch the program, which i did
it was biased, period, as i expected it to be by the title of the show
i'm not faulting frontline for presenting only one side, just that i expect them to be equally biased when they do their hitpiece on the AGW believers (i'll pm you when i see it in my programming guide)
but then they'll have to find different funding foundations not supported radical lefties like soros

edit
here in the great PNW temps have been below average and precip above average
a new ice age is here

[herbivor]

here in the great PNW temps have been below average and precip above average
a new ice age is here

Not quite, but the higher precipitation can be expected in the PNW. (Lucky for you compared to the southwest)

http://www.fws.gov/pacific/Climatechange/changepnw.html

Increases in extreme high precipitation (falling as rain) in the western Cascades and reductions in snowpack are key projections from high-resolution regional climate models. (Littell et-al., 2009)

I'm surprised you looked out your window to notice the weather hasn't been normal. Imagine the insight you would gain if you actually stepped outside and walked around. There is a lot to see when you pull your head out of the sand. Walk over to nearby Glacier National Park. There area 25 glaciers left. A century ago, there were nearly 150.

[nando]

you asked me to watch the program, which i did
it was biased, period, as i expected it to be by the title of the show
i'm not faulting frontline for presenting only one side, just that i expect them to be equally biased when they do their hitpiece on the AGW believers (i'll pm you when i see it in my programming guide)
but then they'll have to find different funding foundations not supported radical lefties like soros

edit
here in the great PNW temps have been below average and precip above average
a new ice age is here

except in the mountains where the high temps have caused devestation on tens of thousands of acres of trees. 53,000 acres in BC alone. I've seen it, it's pretty horrible. oh yeah, the grassy areas in the mountains are disappearing too, again to warmer temperatures. I just read a study that our old trees are dying at an accelerated rate, all over the world.

the UK has lost 90% of it's ash trees. Then there's the slash and burn in the rain forests (so we can grow sugar for "green" ethanol). Did you know that Madagascar has lost 90% forests, and the island is turning to desert? this isn't something that happens over the course of 30 years by itself.

ice age? get real.

you're so blind it's not even funny. we had places in WA a couple weeks ago that got a FOOT of rain, and I don't mean in the mountains. you think that's normal? even for here, that is insanity.

It would be one thing if any one of these events happened by themselves. But they are happening everywhere, at the same time.

when a mudslide washes away your home, maybe you'll wake up. but I doubt it.

[gwb72tii]

11 days left

[rwh11385]

11 days left

Until what? Ice Age?

[Q5Quint]

stop talking and do something about it. Change yourself first. All you guys do is sit here and talk talk talk trying to prove something. Why don't you do something about it, list all that you've done pls

As a classic (ie shitty 80's german taxi) car enthusiast the human-caused global warming idea is perplexing. The area I live in has seen several, in my opinion, negative impacts of human-environment interaction in much more obvious ways than the elusive 'climate change'. Mountains exploded for roads, rivers run dry to get water for more apartment buildings, green pastures paved over for new wal-marts and shopping malls.....

'Kraut Creek' where german farmers used to grow a shitton of cabbage around 1900 (insert link here, cant find a old picture)(also I hope that name wasn't meant to be a derogatory term lol) is now literally a drainage ditch for the college campus. Several children and people have drowned in it because all the runoff from the parking lots and roads turns it into a raging whitewater river that is sucked underground through grates under roads in several places. Drunk kids even drown in it when it isnt raging. http://www.goblueridge.net/index.php...d=1&Itemid=157

Point is.... 75+ years of town growth and we have made some bad decisions. Shit looks bad and people are drowning because we paved everything. Nevermind the apartments that need foundations rebuilt because the extra water keeps flooding their basements. Oops. Now we know that paving everything is bad, and is especially bad when you don't have a stormwater management plan, and we can fix it $$ and move on.

A lot of people hate when a city has zoning regulations, greenspace requirements, stromwater regulations etc.... but when you build an apartment building and 15 years later you have to evacuate and condemn the building due to the foundation flooding because of your neighbors new parking lot up the street.... suddenly your mindset changes. I cant have you doing 'whatever you want with your property' especially if it is going to screw me over further down the road and cost me my business/home/etc.

With rain it is pretty easy to figure out. If you pave your 100ftx50ft parking lot, and it rains an inch... at .623 gallons per sq foot in a 5000 sq foot area means we need to put 3115 gallons of water somewhere. Preferably not in my basement.

With emissions and 'climate change' this 'human caused effect' is harder to see. Everything out there breathing is adding co2. Every engine idling is adding co2. Every powerplant running is adding co2..... but you don't see people drown in it and it doesn't flood your basement. Add in all the cfc's, methane, water vapors etc and the equation becomes too complicated to really understand clearly without over-simplification. If we keep putting shit into the air it will eventually rain shit on us. If we keep paving 100x50ft parking lots then 3115 gallons of water will keep going somewhere every time it rains an inch.

A lot of people say that the scientist are wrong, they have a liberal bias, no consensus, they eat babies etc. However, I know for a fact I can smell something when I run down main street just beside the krout creek ditch in front of my house, and it sure as hell does not smell roses. Sometimes its a bit nauseating, but I tend to put up with it as I jog past the line of cars idling at each light so I can run around the campus and pretend the young ladies would still be interested in my flabby white ass. As the exhaust fumes trickle into my lungs I am reminded how my little downtown is like a gravity-bong made from a trash can floating in a swimming pool, and my head along with a fine-assed brown-eyed 22 year old art student is right there inside as my friends pull the can up and fill it with diesel truck exhaust instead of sweet reefer so we fucking die instead of having a good time.

What have we done?
Well the town has a pretty decent plan for bikes/greenways, fixing up downtown, stormwater and stream restoration and retention ponds. There are a bunch of sustainability committees getting a town-wide composting thing going, making plastic bags illegal since we keep having to clean them out of the storm drains, trying to promote local businesses over box stores with the chamber of commerce. I live in town so I can walk everywhere and don't actually have to drive. I have a old diesel mercedes that burns veggie oil my favorite bar gives me for free, so I can drive for free and be carbon neutral. It is slow as fuck but I don't drive too much~ the e30 is a track toy and for weekends. I even ran a bicycle collective out of my garage for 2 years. I buy everything I can from local people, followed by made in america, followed by organic/no chem stuff. Nobody is perfect but remember who and what industries you are supporting when you spend your $$. Even craftsman tools went to china....

The sell-out mentality just to 'get more for your buck' is what is destroying a lot of things, not just the environment. It is great that my town can decide to have more green space and permeable pavement to keep stuff from flooding, but that doesn't stop people from buying plastic xmas ornaments made in a chinese factory with no environmental concerns. If we don't start caring about our own environment at a local and federal and global level we will literally drown, followed by choking ourselves to death with smog, followed by possibly changing the weather patterns like a bunch of fat slobbery mad scientists drunk on oil and bent on destroying the planet and raping all the brown people in the process.

In the year-to-year game of capitalism a lot of this stuff doesn't make sense monetarily... a park in town makes much less money than a oil well and asphalt factory.... but might be more enjoyable to people..... but in the next 30 years I hope the USA that does remain here is ready to sustain itself and its people without being hooked on selling out to make a buck.

So back to global warming. Do you think all the additional concerns surrounding the human-caused global warming debate warrant us reducing emissions anyway?

(imported goods with no env or worker standards, outsourced labor losing jobs domestically, imported fuel supplies relying on other countries that hate us but love our money, cost of fossil fuel energy continuing to rise etc etc. ie why would we want to continue burning this horrible shit?)

[Q5Quint]

11 days left

I thought myan said 12/12/12? Thats 2 days.

The 21st is just the solstice so if it ends then I will be at my local pagan blood orgy. Also called 'my neighbors ugly xmas sweater party'.

[gwb72tii]

it is the 21st on soltice, but i could be wrong
congrats for seeing a little humor

as to your last question, its a bit of a catch 22, no?
outlaw developing countries from using fossil fuel based electricity, and the flip side is permanent poverty, disease and pollution. how does the UN/USA/IPCC morally condemn millions to that future? how do you tell obama's brother that he can't have a light bulb?