Global Warming is over.

[Fusion]

That's debatable, considering he's been refusing to hand over data.
Nontheless, even taking that part out, the question still remains valid. The original graph (confirmed above to have limited data) is what was percieved as a "conclusion" and thus lead to various political actions that have had various negative financial and other consequences.
I don't really care who makes what graph, it's the misuse that I'm concerned about.

[cale]

^
Do any of your continual hockey sticks take into account the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age?

I fucking lol'd at this. Just a few posts up is a link which deals specifically with those two events, explaining the flaws in arguing with them as ammo. It's like skeptics all share the same brain and are incapable of original thought, simply repeat the arguments you hear/read through your conservative media outlets. Then again you're all basing your arguments off of a few sole climatologists so that shouldn't be too surprising.

More recently, Mann battled back in a 2004 corrigendum in the journal Nature, in which he clarified the presentation of his data. He has also shown how errors on the part of his attackers led to their specific results. For instance, skeptics often cite the Little Ice Age and Medieval Warming Period as pieces of evidence not reflected in the hockey stick, yet these extremes are examples of regional, not global, phenomena. "From an intellectual point of view, these contrarians are pathetic, because there's no scientific validity to their arguments whatsoever," Mann says. "But they're very skilled at deducing what sorts of disingenuous arguments and untruths are likely to be believable to the public that doesn't know better."

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=behind-the-hockey-stick

[Fusion]

There are multiple examples of the same temperature changes all around the world, land and water.

[herbivor]

There are multiple examples of the same temperature changes all around the world, land and water.

No there isn't, even today. Average temperature increase in the polar regions is much much greater than the average global temperature increase in the past century.

[Fusion]

Let me rephrase that

There are multiple examples of the same Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age temperature changes all around the world (in various places), land and water. Not saying the temp was the same everywhere.

You keep talking about and posting graphs of the last century. This is miniscule in the history of the earth and like saying it must've rained all last week based only on the fact that it has been raining for the past 5 minutes.

[cale]

You and old man rivers seem to enjoy arguing climate change on your layman perception of what constitutes normal shifts in climate and it's impact on ecosystems. What qualifications do you have that allow you to make such bold claims such as "it's happened before, therefore it's normal"? Sudden dramatic shifts in the stability of ecosystems impact them detrimentally, that is fact. If we are to blame for that (the research shows we likely are) that is not something we can simply chalk off by saying shits happened before naturally, so it's ok now too.

I'd really love to see the skeptics citing respected climatologists and not just media sources, but we all know that will likely never occur.

[nando]

That's debatable, considering he's been refusing to hand over data.
Nontheless, even taking that part out, the question still remains valid. The original graph (confirmed above to have limited data) is what was percieved as a "conclusion" and thus lead to various political actions that have had various negative financial and other consequences.
I don't really care who makes what graph, it's the misuse that I'm concerned about.

what misuse?

further data has only added to the original idea. it's getting worse, not better, as it's studied more.

a few posts up I linked to an article that stated two things: this year will will easily eclipse the lowest levels of arctic ice in recorded history, and the curve for when the arctic will be ice free during the summer has shrank from 100 years from now to 30 years from now.

[Fusion]

I certainly don't have the qualification of the scientists claiming dinosaurs caused huge co2 and temperature rise, though allowing them to live wholefully for millions of years.

[gwb72tii]

^^^
yes yes yes
and the PNW is having a below normal temp summer
and the world has seen a slight cooling this year
and the alps had record snow
and the glaciers are not melting in the himalayas
and oceans have cooled
and there has been no warming for 15yrs
and there was lying/manipulating data in climategate
and there is significant dissension among scientists
and exxon spent 35 million on rebutting AGW vs 79 billion government funding pro AGW
and CO2 is a lagging indicator
and man contributes 4% to total annual CO2 emissions, yet man is driving AGW
and most warming last century happened well before CO2 rose
and climate models are proprietary not to be seen by tax payers
and climate models haven't predicted anything
and climate models don't take into account the fucking SUN
and the pro AGW camp is as innocent of political aims as the driven snow
and you guys dismiss it all away
we're "deniers". proudly.

[Fusion]

lowest levels of arctic ice in recorded history

It seems so scary when written like that.

Satellite observations show the extent of the floating ice that melts and refreezes every year was 318,000 square miles less last week than the same day period in 2007, the year of record low extent, and the lowest observed at this time of year since records began in 1979.

[cale]

AGW is actually a direct result of the methane off gassing from all the shit skeptics talk.

[gwb72tii]

It seems so scary when written like that.

and recorded history began when?

[gwb72tii]

AGW is actually a direct result of the methane off gassing from all the shit skeptics talk.

i'd tell you to blow it out your ass, but that means more methane

:D

[cale]

What do experts who specialize in their field know anyways. I'm sure laymans could have put men on the moon, developed a vaccine for smallpox, created the computer and pretty much given us everything of technological significance that professionals have.

Education is overrated, celebrate ignorance and unqualified "common sense".

[z31maniac]

^^^

and the world has seen a slight cooling this year

I guess that explains the US having the highest avg temp over the last 12 months ever recorded.

Thanks for clearing that up!