Fat people Not responsible.

[joshh]

man, you make no sense at all.

I answered your question. If you are going to die (immediately), they have to treat you, regardless of income. I don't disagree with that. It shouldn't be based on whether you have money or not - like I said, not everyone is rich or poor based on their own merits. rich people's lives are not worth more than a poor person's. Actually, that's more of an argument for universal insurance, if anything.

do I disagree with people going to the emergency room for a hangnail or a cold? sure. I don't even know WTF you're talking about with "being chosen or not". now you're arguing about Obamacare? Nobody even mentioned it but you?

debating with you is hilarious and frustrating at the same time. lol

SOCIALISM!! :p

Keep running around in circles all you like. I'm talking about both.
Socialized medicine is picking people out to die.
Obamacare will not equalize the rich and the poor and neither will Socialized medicine.

Isn't Porland supposed to be one of the more liberal cities in America? Do you have your drinking water shipped in from somewhere else?

That aside, I believe you've been misinformed on the fundamentals of Obamacare. The elements from it that have already kicked in mainly prevent your insurance company from dropping you because of pre-existing conditions. The part that was scheduled to kick-in starting in 2014 involved requiring people to purchase their own privatized health insurance or suffer an income tax penalty which is scheduled to be steadily increased in magnitude over several years with exceptions given to those in hardship type situations. There is also some legislation which states that employers must provide options for privatized health insurance for their employees. There is no "public" option, therefore there can be nobody in office making those decisions on your behalf. Granted, your privatized insurance company can probably still find ways to dick you over as has been the status quo for decades.

Yes, very liberal. No, we get it locally.

That's not what I was referring to. I was pointing out to him that the rich can still bypass Obamacare and buy a surgery. While the poor have to rely on the insurer approving the surgery. In other words Socialism (Corporatism in this specific case) is not the great equalizing force the working class think it is. Socialism is designed to fool the middle class citizen, as so many have been fooled before us.

[herbivor]

going back to the original topic: it would cost a hell of a lot less, overall, to prevent people from getting fat than it does to treat them after the fact..

"Socialism, nanny state." /joshh

But seriously, the RWNJs will always want to believe that individuals don't need anyone telling them what to do and somehow everything will be great and we will all get along and the free market will self-correct any problems we have :loco: If everyone thought and behaved exactly the same and were given equal opportunities, I suppose that would work. But in the real world, it does not. That is why governments exist in the first place.

[joshh]

"Socialism, nanny state." /joshh

But seriously, the RWNJs will always want to believe that individuals don't need anyone telling them what to do and somehow everything will be great and we will all get along and the free market will self-correct any problems we have :loco: If everyone thought and behaved exactly the same and were given equal opportunities, I suppose that would work. But in the real world, it does not. That is why governments exist in the first place.

Do you know the difference between upholding the law and regulation?

[freeride53]

The acceptance of this kind of things is an example of how our country is turning into a well-oiled machine.
Provide fast food giants/walmart (cliche, etc...) with all the rights they want? Accept the harsh reality that comes with there profits.

[cale]

I'd rather die a free man without the operation than wait in line waiting for a fucking politician to stamp my forehead for approval. All you need to complete the transformation is a collar.

It's time to upgrade to your TV from the 60's, because you seem to think the rest of the world is black and white as well.

The degree to which you argue a nanny state is hilarious, do you sit with an American flag draped around you in tears as you watch Glenn Beck tell you everything you want to hear too?

Canada couldn't defend their homeland if they had 10 years to plan for it.

Lol relevant and definitely well thought out. It couldn't possibly be the fact that we're resonsible for a nation quite a bit larger than yours with a fraction of the population right...or was that just your typical ignorant shot at Canadians?

[nando]

Kee

That's not what I was referring to. I was pointing out to him that the rich can still bypass Obamacare and buy a surgery. While the poor have to rely on the insurer approving the surgery.

uhm. it already works that way. except most of the poor don't even have insurance. you still pay for it, the insurance companies just raise their premiums, because the hospitals have to charge a ton more to cover for all the people that can't pay.

and at least with universal care, if you're poor and you need an expensive surgery to live, you won't be ruined financially for the rest of your life. that is, if you can survive long enough to wait in line for an available doctor.

what you really don't seem to get, is you're already paying for the poor's healthcare, except it's way more expensive because it's after they've already gotten sick and treatment is more expensive.

also, it's hilarious that you say that "obamacare" will choose who lives and dies, when you basically said that poor people should die if they can't pay for care (no longer force hospitals to provide emergency treatment regardless). it's okay if you get to choose?

[cale]

But it doesn't affect him now, he doesn't want to stand in line behind those who's lifes he feels have less value. That's the only way you can interpret the fear mongering bullshit he spews.

[BraveUlysses]

Cognitive dissonance is a bitch. Pretty amusing to see how it manifests itself.

[nando]

But it doesn't affect him now, he doesn't want to stand in line behind those who's lifes he feels have less value. That's the only way you can interpret the fear mongering bullshit he spews.

hey, china is polluting the F*@K out of the environment - but that's not our problem because we can't see it? yeah, that makes sense.

[joshh]

It's time to upgrade to your TV from the 60's, because you seem to think the rest of the world is black and white as well.

The degree to which you argue a nanny state is hilarious, do you sit with an American flag draped around you in tears as you watch Glenn Beck tell you everything you want to hear too?



Lol relevant and definitely well thought out. It couldn't possibly be the fact that we're resonsible for a nation quite a bit larger than yours with a fraction of the population right...or was that just your typical ignorant shot at Canadians?

Maybe you don't realize most of Canada is a frozen fucking wasteland. There's little to defend. And you missed the entire point which you're trying to miss of course. Canada can't defend itself because its too busy picking and choosing who's going to die next in their awesome healthcare system. They keep throwing more and more money every year at their healthcare system. Thankfully they don't spend shit on defense...yet.

uhm. it already works that way. except most of the poor don't even have insurance. you still pay for it, the insurance companies just raise their premiums, because the hospitals have to charge a ton more to cover for all the people that can't pay.

and at least with universal care, if you're poor and you need an expensive surgery to live, you won't be ruined financially for the rest of your life. that is, if you can survive long enough to wait in line for an available doctor.

what you really don't seem to get, is you're already paying for the poor's healthcare, except it's way more expensive because it's after they've already gotten sick and treatment is more expensive.

also, it's hilarious that you say that "obamacare" will choose who lives and dies, when you basically said that poor people should die if they can't pay for care (no longer force hospitals to provide emergency treatment regardless). it's okay if you get to choose?

Hospitals have to charge more for those who *refuse to pay*. ftfy

I never said that. But feel free to dub in all you want. The poor will die with or without your great Socialized medicine. And the rich will still be able to afford that surgery whether you like it or not.
But instead you want to make sure the rest of us get stuck with the bill even further. And cover people's (Americans) irresponsible lifestyles.
I get to to choose *my doctor* and he gets to work out with me personal payment. Unlike so many other Americans that flat out refuse to pay a cent of their hospital bills and the "free" medical care we give to illegal aliens.

But it doesn't affect him now, he doesn't want to stand in line behind those who's lifes he feels have less value. That's the only way you can interpret the fear mongering bullshit he spews.

Yes interpret it that way because you can't possibly understand personal responsibility in any form obviously.

Cognitive dissonance is a bitch. Pretty amusing to see how it manifests itself.

Yes you guys are showing it.

Socialized medicine and all your Socialized programs are Unconstitutional.

[s14pwd]

What wasteland are you referring too?



BTW no healthcare system will work 100%, the difference is if I get a tumor, they will fix me and I wont spend the rest of my life paying for it(all be it may take a bit longer), where as you can either rot away and die painfully or have it fixed quicker but spend the rest of your miserable life paying it back. Oh or the 3rd option, your insurance says no, so your fucked, or your insurance covers it but they never cover anything afterwords (medicine, check-ups...) because now your "too high risk".

[joshh]

What wasteland are you referring too?



BTW no healthcare system will work 100%, the difference is if I get a tumor, they will fix me and I wont spend the rest of my life paying for it(all be it may take a bit longer), where as you can either rot away and die painfully or have it fixed quicker but spend the rest of your miserable life paying it back. Oh or the 3rd option, your insurance says no, so your fucked, or your insurance covers it but they never cover anything afterwords (medicine, check-ups...) because now your "too high risk".

Wasteland was a poor word to use. Canada is beautiful. Unpopulated...unnecessary to defend.

You get a tumor you hope they'll fix you if you live long enough to wait in the line. Or that they even choose to fix you at all. Or my insurance covers it and all's fine. That's not the case with coverage. Just because you've had a surgery doesn't mean they subsequently reject every other claim.
But then just about everything is more expensive than it should be because the way this country runs and "operates".
Most hospitals don't care what you pay as long as you're paying. I know from experience.

[cale]

Wasteland was a poor word to use. Canada is beautiful. Unpopulated...unnecessary to defend.

Right, that's why for about the past half-century your own military has been spending millions developing and maintaining radar sites in OUR Arctic, maintaining fuel depots, patrols as well as personnel training to be competent in defense and offense in northern environments....once again, OUR northern environments.

You seem to be very naive as to how the rest of the world operates. Rather evident with your confusion that my disagreement with your opinion somehow makes me ignorant to a particular subject. Feel free to come down off that high horse any time you'd like champ, you're gonna get hurt.

Canada can't defend itself because its too busy picking and choosing who's going to die next in their awesome healthcare system. They keep throwing more and more money every year at their healthcare system. Thankfully they don't spend shit on defense...yet.

We spend an adequate amount. We're a small nation population wise, of course we're not going to able to hold off an invasion by one of the worlds bigger military's. Fortunately we are at very little threat of such a thing happening, as is your own country. Should we say screw the sick, we need more bombs and methods of delivery in case a currently unknown aggressor may decide to come start shit? Very reasonable approach to running a country, you should run for president. I'll pass however! I like knowing that if I ever do loose my health I'll still be covered whether or not I fall on hard times, loose my job or am suddenly discovered to have a "pre-existing condition" my insurer was unaware of. Sounds like you guys have it all figured out down there.

[joshh]

Right, that's why for about the past half-century your own military has been spending millions developing and maintaining radar sites in OUR Arctic, maintaining fuel depots, patrols as well as personnel training to be competent in defense and offense in northern environments....once again, OUR northern environments.

You seem to be very naive as to how the rest of the world operates. Rather evident with your confusion that my disagreement with your opinion somehow makes me ignorant to a particular subject. Feel free to come down off that high horse any time you'd like champ, you're gonna get hurt.




We spend an adequate amount. We're a small nation population wise, of course we're not going to able to hold off an invasion by one of the worlds bigger military's. Fortunately we are at very little threat of such a thing happening, as is your own country. Should we say screw the sick, we need more bombs and methods of delivery in case a currently unknown aggressor may decide to come start shit? Very reasonable approach to running a country, you should run for president. I'll pass however! I like knowing that if I ever do loose my health I'll still be covered whether or not I fall on hard times, loose my job or am suddenly discovered to have a "pre-existing condition" my insurer was unaware of. Sounds like you guys have it all figured out down there.

Thanks for supporting my argument. If you guys could defend your own country, we wouldn't be covering your asses. Your welcome.
We have it figured out? Heading toward your broken system is not having it all figured out.
I'm sure you like that as do many Americans now days...free shit at the expense of mostly others.

[cale]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Aerospace_Defense_Command

Please open a book for once and lay off the Fox news, they hold cryptic knowledge which can only be obtained through the complicated act of turning the pages right to left.