Study Shows: GW skeptics have more scientific knowledge...

[Farbin Kaiber]

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1112543163/lack-of-science-education-not-the-cause-of-climate-change-debate/

Oh really?

[cale]

How exactly did you interpret this to mean that the sceptics are sceptical as a result of more knowledge?

Vergano wrote that “a great deal” of evidence supports the notion that the Earth’s climate has warmed over the past 100 years, with greenhouse gasses resulting from the burning of fossil fuels serving as the catalyst for this, according to documented evidence provided by the U.S. National Academy of Sciences and other scientific organizations. Despite this compiled evidence, he said that public opinion remains split on the topic, with 53% blaming human activities for warming and 41% blaming naturally occurring environmental changes.

The last paragraph completely discredits your titling of this thread. It shows that contrary to the evidence, an overwhelming amount are still disregarding it. If you refer back to the reason previously mentioned in the article one could say that disregard for the evidence is likely to be the result of it contradicting with the common belief in a groups social or political circles. That doesn't speak well for your argument.

[Cliche Guevara]

Nowhere in that article did it say that skeptics are more knowledgeable. It's conclusion was that, among the general public, views on climate change have much less to do with science literacy and more to do with cultural values and political leanings. That said, I'm curious what their definition of "scientific literacy" is. Science literacy is much more than being able to spout out scientific facts, it's a process by which you analyze information.

Neil deGrasse Tyson on science literacy.

[joshh]

I saw that coming.

I did find it funny that those that have a good technical knowledge of climate change were the most inclined to ass kissing their respective side.

[cale]

I'll take sharing views with my political peers over ignoring the evidence any day. Wonder which side of the fence has the larger number of evolution sceptics, I'm willing to bet I can guess correctly...

[joshh]

I'll take sharing views with my political peers over ignoring the "evidence" any day. Wonder which side of the fence has the larger number of evolution sceptics, I'm willing to bet I can guess correctly...

ftfy

[cale]

What does the National Academy of Sciences know anyways, they're only one of the premier scientific groups in the world.

You've spent your entire life surrounded by simpletons where your refusal to acknowledge evidence because it disagrees with your preconceived ideas has been a valid argument haven't you? I'd be shocked to learn you did well in a high school science class let alone be exposed to scientific information beyond what fox news has fed to you.

[gwb72tii]

and skeptics would be shocked to hear the media report on the big business of promoting AGW, and how there is no funding, at all, of the skeptics. wonder of wonders there are many that promote AGW in the face of contradictory eveidence.
i mean, if i'm a 'starving" scientist, i get paid to promote AGW thru government grants. and you believers still think this is science.

LOL

[joshh]

and skeptics would be shocked to hear the media report on the big business of promoting AGW, and how there is no funding, at all, of the skeptics. wonder of wonders there are many that promote AGW in the face of contradictory eveidence.
i mean, if i'm a 'starving" scientist, i get paid to promote AGW thru government grants. and you believers still think this is science.

LOL

Oh it's science, just the new breed of science.

[Farbin Kaiber]

And, as I've said before, it's not denying that there is a change in the climate, it's more wondering what kind of cars the cavemen were driving to end the last ice age.

[joshh]

And, as I've said before, it's not denying that there is a change in the climate, it's more wondering what kind of cars the cavemen were driving to end the last ice age.

They were just huge flatulators. Get over it. It was obviously NGW (Neanderthalic Global Warming).

[Kershaw]

this just in: the pope has more scientific knowledge than everyone in the world.

[cale]

and skeptics would be shocked to hear the media report on the big business of promoting AGW, and how there is no funding, at all, of the skeptics. wonder of wonders there are many that promote AGW in the face of contradictory eveidence.
i mean, if i'm a 'starving" scientist, i get paid to promote AGW thru government grants. and you believers still think this is science.

LOL

There is little funding because it is weak science. If you think the entire scientific community gets together to get their story straight so they can all sell the same lie there's no sense arguing you. You've already chosen what you want to believe, the evidence isn't going to sway you nor josh. Thats a fundamental flaw in your ability to be respected in a scientific discussion.

Before you retaliate with it, the science the sceptics bring forward is NOT settled nor strong enough to discredit that of climate scientists in support of AGW. Using it as your reasoning makes you look like a jackass with little credibility.

[BraveUlysses]

Oddly relevant.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/05/accusations-that-climate-science-is-money-driven-reveal-ignorance-of-how-science-is-done/

Accusations that climate science is money-driven reveal ignorance of how science is done

One of the unfortunate memes that has made repeated appearances in the climate debate is that money isn't just influencing the public debate about science, but it's also influencing the science itself. The government, the argument goes, is paying scientists specifically to demonstrate that carbon dioxide is the major culprit in recent climate change, and the money available to do so is exploding.

Although the argument displays a profound misunderstanding of how science and science funding work, it's just not going away. Just this week, one of the sites where people congregate to criticize mainstream climate science once again repeated it, replete with the graph below. That graph originated in a 2009 report from a think tank called the Science & Public Policy Institute (notable for using the serially confused Christopher Monckton as a policy advisor).

The report, called "Climate Money: The climate industry: $79 billion so far—trillions to come" (PDF) and prepared by Australian journalist Joanne Nova for the Science & Public Policy Institute, claims to show how money has distorted climate science. There are several aspects to this argument, but we'll start with the money itself.
Who's got the money?

Many discussions have focused on the fact that businesses with a large carbon output (like fossil fuels extractors) have funded PR and lobbying efforts that, in part, have attempted to undercut the scientific case for human-driven climate change. It notes that there is now significant money being made by companies that build carbon-neutral energy sources and energy efficient technology, some coming from tax incentives and subsidies. In addition, carbon-trading markets are predicted to grow rapidly over the coming decades. Combined, the report asserts, this money provides an incentive to keep the spotlight focused on carbon.

In short, some of the green industries are now in the same position as their fossil fuel counterparts, in that they have an incentive to shape policy and the public support for it. There's a definite element of truth to this, although there are clearly reasons other than climate change—ocean acidification, energy security, extending the lifetime of finite resources—for promoting efficiency and green energy.

But the key thing here is that, at best, these companies can influence things like public perception and policy responses. They don't influence the underlying science because almost none of them are paying any scientists to gather data. So, although a focus on the income of various companies might tell us something about public opinion, it doesn't really say much about the science.

The false assertion that money is distorting the science comes, in part, from a spectacular misreading of the following graph.

The graph ostensibly shows how the US has gone from essentially funding nothing in the way of climate research to spending over $7 billion a year. But the vast majority of that money is in the form of "Climate Technology," and a careful reading of the report indicates that this goes to things like wind and solar power, biofuel production, and things of that nature. None of that money goes to the researchers who are actually generating the results that point to anthropogenic warming, so it can't possibly provide an incentive to them.

The money that is actually going to climate science is on the bottom of the graph, in purple. And, as that shows, funding has been essentially flat since the early 1990s. (Funding has gone up slightly in recent years, but is still in the neighborhood of $2 billion annually.) A lot of that money doesn't actually go to scientists, either, as it pays to support everything from some of NASA's Earth-monitoring satellites to land and ocean temperature monitoring.

The other issue with this graph is that it gives the false impression that funding shot up from nowhere around 1990. The truth of the matter is that the US has been funding climate science for decades. It's why we have things like a record of CO2 levels that goes back to the 1950s, temperature records that span over a century, and a detailed history of periods like the ice ages. People didn't just suddenly start studying this stuff in 1990—and much of the work from before that date was funded by the government. What changed was the accounting. There are over a dozen different branches of the government that fund some sort of science, but it wasn't until 1990 that the government formed the Climate Change Science Program, which started aggregating the expenditures across agencies.

There has never been any sudden boom in government funding for climate research that is luring people onto the research track, much less inducing them to support the consensus view. If anything, many years of flat funding would provide an incentive for people to look to getting out of the field. The graph, held up as evidence that climate scientists are being led around by money, actually shows the exact opposite.
Where's that money going?

But maybe that money is somehow being directed in a biased manner, distributed in a way that ensures the current consensus is supported. "Where is the Department of Solar Influence or the Institute of Natural Climate Change?" Nova asks, elsewhere claiming, "Thousands of scientists have been funded to find a connection between human carbon emissions and the climate. Hardly any have been funded to find the opposite."

This displays an almost incomprehensible misunderstanding of how science research works. There are institutes that are dedicated to studying the Sun—the Naval Research Laboratory has one, as does NASA. But those institutes are focused on learning about what the Sun actually does, not squeezing what we learn into some preconceived agenda. For decades, solar activity has been trending downwards, even as temperatures have continued to rise. It's not that the researchers are being induced or compelled to some sort of biased interpretation of the data. Reality just happens to have a bias.

The same thing works in other areas as well. A number of countries have spent large sums of research dollars to put Earth-monitoring satellites in orbit, not with the intent of finding anything in particular, but because monitoring the Earth can tell us important things. This hardware has imaged the Greenland ice sheet—again, not because of some sort of bias, but because the sheet is very big and very significant. Most of these studies have suggested that ice loss is accelerating, but a recent one concluded, "sea level rise from Greenland may fall well below proposed upper bounds."

The researchers weren't from some sort of "Institute to discover a stable sea level." They were from departments focused on polar research and Earth sciences. What Nova doesn't seem to get is that the people who study the planet actually pay attention to what the planet tells them, not to what their institute may be titled.

(Incidentally, this paper is also a clear indication that research that indicates things aren't as bad as they could be not only gets published, but makes it into very prestigious journals.)

Like many other self-proclaimed skeptics, Nova also has the bizarre idea that research normally proceeds by "auditing" existing studies. "Auditing AGW research," she writes "is so underfunded that for the most part it is left to unpaid bloggers who collect donations from concerned citizens online." But nobody audits the JPL to see if it's handling the Cassini probe properly; geneticists aren't being asked to open their books so that other scientists can see if they're fudging the numbers.

Science simply doesn't proceed through audits. The Greenland paper linked above provides a much more typical picture of how things work. The researchers behind it didn't simply reanalyze what others had done; they got new (and, in many ways, better) data that addressed the same issue and provided a more comprehensive picture of what was going on at the ice sheet's glaciers.

In short, you generally don't make an impression on science by auditing past data; you do it by coming up with better data.

It's pretty strange that people find in the graph above (which shows research stuck in neutral for decades) evidence of a flood of money into climate science that distorts its conclusions. But it's unfortunately typical that an argument focused on climate science leaves the facts behind from the start.

[joshh]

I suppose no one buys stock in "green" companies either right. Or invests in them. Say Al Gore style.
There's a shit ton of money out there for those who push AGW.