No one interested in the new developments with Fast and Furious?

[Morrison]

Obama knew, "A couple Nissan AK-47's would pull a premium one week before the race wars."

[Quadrajet]

Was but I knew the fact other Presidents have stepped in before and the fact that Obama's first time use of tactic didn't upset me that much.

More concerned about our ever increase ventures into Pakistan. If you want out of Afghanistan than you might want to cease the cross border strikes into Pakistan.

Not being there and not being privy to Intelligence reports, I'm imagining the strikes in Pakistan are like the US incursion into Cambodia during the Vietnam war. But in this case taking out certain people and perhaps munitions caches, which in the long run may only "buy" a short breathing space for the Afghan govt to get it's act together.

[joshh]

Been keeping track of this one a bit. But Obama has so many lies now swirling around him, it's tough to keep track of them all.

[BraveUlysses]

In with CNN is not a credible source?

Well, if you had anything of substance to say about it you would simply rebut the authors of said opinion piece, instead of a transparent attack at the source that it's published through. But you didn't.

[BraveUlysses]

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth

A good read, for those who want to get past the political theatrics surrounding this issue.

A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Well, if you had anything of substance to say about it you would simply rebut the authors of said opinion piece, instead of a transparent attack at the source that it's published through. But you didn't.

It was a sarcastic fucking joke, get a fucking grip man.

[BraveUlysses]

It was a sarcastic fucking joke, get a fucking grip man.

[z31maniac]

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.co...-furious-truth

A good read, for those who want to get past the political theatrics surrounding this issue.

A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.

Didn't have to time read it all just yet.

But my question still remains, if that is true, why has Holder been stalling for more than a year to turn over the documents and why is the President now covering for a cabinet member, when usually it's the other way around.

I realize you will likely dismiss that as baseless speculation.

I mean if you were being wrongfully accused of a crime and had proof to show that did not commit the crime, why wouldn't you turn over those documents?


This matter could hardly be considered an issue of national security.

[BraveUlysses]

Didn't have to time read it all just yet.

But my question still remains, if that is true, why has Holder been stalling for more than a year to turn over the documents and why is the President now covering for a cabinet member, when usually it's the other way around.

I realize you will likely dismiss that as baseless speculation.

I mean if you were being wrongfully accused of a crime and had proof to show that did not commit the crime, why wouldn't you turn over those documents?

I'm not in the habit of dismissing your statements; you usually make solid posts here.

That said, I'm not sure, but my understanding based only upon what I've been reading, is that Issa is requesting documents that involve ongoing investigations.

I'm not going to try to justify any of Holder or Obama's reactions to this and I don't know why they have chosen to make the decisions they've made--I do know theatrics when I see them, and Issa is definitely the star of this show.

This matter could hardly be considered an issue of national security.

You're right, Op F&F has nothing to do with national security.

[gwb72tii]

Issa believes and i concur that the internal investigation was started to specifically prevent congress from being able to supboena and access info about F&F, that Justice is prevented from cooperation during an ongoing investigation.

The investigation has been going on for over a year to find, in part, who is responsible for F&F. Since then Holder has had to recant on several statements and documents given to Issa. He drags his feet responding to the congressional committees's requests, does so on Friday afternoons to avoid press scrutiny, and pretty much has an attitude of superiority to the comittee.

Holder is in charge of Justice, right? there is no way the investigation should take this long to find out who is responsible for the operation. It's ludicrous. And if he can't fins out he should be fired outright as incompetent.

Tomorrow hw'll be voted in contempt, and right now it looks like something close to 20 democrats will vote in favor of the contempt charge.

[z31maniac]

You're right, Op F&F has nothing to do with national security.

My point with that being, this isn't a valid reason to use Executive Privilege on the docs.

And the President admitted publicly he knew nothing and wasn't involved, nor was his office, so again, his use of Executive Privilege seems ill-advised at best..........and a bit like a cover-up at worst.

[2761377]

it's all about the cover-up. does not the phrase 'inadvertantly denied' reek of being caught?

dad- "is this your bong?"

son- "no, dad- i have no idea where that came from."

weeks later, dad overhears son's friend asking "did you ever find your bong? last i saw it was on the table by your pool."

next day, dad says "i heard you and spanky talking about that bong. i know it's yours. WTF?"

son- "i fuked up dad. i inadvertantly denied it to be mine."

dad- "what else are you hiding? you got a balloon of heroin in your backpack or something like that?"

if i'm dad, i'm suspicious.

[Vedubin01]

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.co...-furious-truth

A good read, for those who want to get past the political theatrics surrounding this issue.

A Fortune investigation reveals that the ATF never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. How the world came to believe just the opposite is a tale of rivalry, murder, and political bloodlust.

Ill chime in here... if they never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican criminals, how did over 2000 guns go missing?

These guns were purchased from gun stores in states surrounding a boarder. You can not just go buy 2000 guns at one time. Or even 100 at a time. This is hundreds of transactions. This is a display of carelessness and total disregard of the law. Each purchase gets a 4473. This is a federal background check and has to be called in to the ATF themselves.

If this was the idea, who's retarded idea was this? And how high does it go? This shows incompetence and those who authorized this should be liable for the death of Brian Terry.

All of this is going on under this administration, this administration has been working on blaming the American people and working on tightening national gun laws.

As the story broke the coverup began to protect those who where involved. Was this ok'd by Eric Holder himself? If so he should hang!

[2761377]

I do know theatrics when I see them, and Issa is definitely the star of this show.

when, as his constituent, i called Rep Issa's office in January about PIPA/SOPA i spoke with a very nice staffer. i imagine she was nice because of my support for Rep Issa on those issues, but when i also complemented him on F&F, she said she ws getting lots of those calls as well. then i said he should run for Prez and she laughed heartily-"His wife would never allow THAT!" imagine my disappointment, especially when looking at the weak nominee they plan to put forward.

i think you may put to rest any ideas you have about this comtempt of congress thing being personal political aggrandizment.

tomorrow we'll find out if Rep Larsen of the 2nd district caves in to the NRA. will he risk his B- rating? time will tell.

[BraveUlysses]

Ill chime in here... if they never intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands of Mexican criminals, how did over 2000 guns go missing?

These guns were purchased from gun stores in states surrounding a boarder. You can not just go buy 2000 guns at one time. Or even 100 at a time. This is hundreds of transactions. This is a display of carelessness and total disregard of the law. Each purchase gets a 4473. This is a federal background check and has to be called in to the ATF themselves.

If this was the idea, who's retarded idea was this? And how high does it go? This shows incompetence and those who authorized this should be liable for the death of Brian Terry.

All of this is going on under this administration, this administration has been working on blaming the American people and working on tightening national gun laws.

As the story broke the coverup began to protect those who where involved. Was this ok'd by Eric Holder himself? If so he should hang!

Try reading the link I posted, much of what you just posted is incorrect. People can buy hundreds of thousands of dollars of guns if you have a clean record--those forms notify the ATF, but do not necessarily require the ATF to allow/deny the sale of the weapons.

Here's a few excerpts:

Quite simply, there's a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn.

It was nearly impossible in Arizona to bring a case against a straw purchaser. The federal prosecutors there did not consider the purchase of a huge volume of guns, or their handoff to a third party, sufficient evidence to seize them. A buyer who certified that the guns were for himself, then handed them off minutes later, hadn't necessarily lied and was free to change his mind. Even if a suspect bought 10 guns that were recovered days later at a Mexican crime scene, this didn't mean the initial purchase had been illegal. To these prosecutors, the pattern proved little. Instead, agents needed to link specific evidence of intent to commit a crime to each gun they wanted to seize.

And one of the worst facts to come out of this:

New facts are still coming to light—and will likely continue to do so with the Justice Department inspector general's report expected in coming months. Among the discoveries: Fast and Furious' top suspects—Sinaloa Cartel operatives and Mexican nationals who were providing the money, ordering the guns, and directing the recruitment of the straw purchasers—turned out to be FBI informants who were receiving money from the bureau. That came as news to the ATF agents in Group VII.

when, as his constituent, i called Rep Issa's office in January about PIPA/SOPA i spoke with a very nice staffer. i imagine she was nice because of my support for Rep Issa on those issues, but when i also complemented him on F&F, she said she ws getting lots of those calls as well. then i said he should run for Prez and she laughed heartily-"His wife would never allow THAT!" imagine my disappointment, especially when looking at the weak nominee they plan to put forward.

i think you may put to rest any ideas you have about this comtempt of congress thing being personal political aggrandizment.

tomorrow we'll find out if Rep Larsen of the 2nd district caves in to the NRA. will he risk his B- rating? time will tell.

You have low standards. This is the very definition of theatrics:

With the House just days away from a vote on holding Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. in contempt, Representative Darrell Issa, Republican of California, appeared on national television on Sunday to say he had e-mails showing that the architects of a federal gun-smuggling investigation intended to use the operation to build a case for reinstating the lapsed ban on assault-weapons sales.

“We have e-mail from people involved in this that are talking about using what they’re finding here to support the — basically assault weapons ban or greater reporting,” Mr. Issa, the chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said on ABC’s “This Week.”

On Tuesday, Representative Steny H. Hoyer, Democrat of Maryland and the House minority whip, challenged Mr. Issa to prove it.

“If he has those documents, he should show them,” Mr. Hoyer said.

*crickets*