When CCW saves peoples lives thread.

[DER E30]

your home is your property. I'm not interested in telling you what to do in your home. () I don't think it's safe for you to keep a gun in the home,Let me worry about that in my home... and stay out of my home if you've got a problem with my guns. statistics are clear that gun owners present more of a danger to themselves than invading strangers present to them, and I wouldn't have one in my house if I had children.Sounds like a problem of lack of training and a safe... That's my personal choice but I'm still not going to get in the way of your choices as to how you choose to defend yourself and family in the confines of your own property.

The only caveat is I think there needs to be some level of discussion about how to make sure you remain a responsible gun owner--how to keep it out of the hands of children and criminals. I don't even care, from a legal standpoint, if you choose to shoot yourself in the face.

I have a safe and ALL my guns are safely inside all the time but one, and that one I literally have control of ALL the time, strapped to me. So they are ALL out of the hands of kids and criminals, either locked up tight or safely with me.

Some people, like pacifists, think that guns are bad or evil or whatever, and that you shouldn't have a weapon or harm someone over property on principle. So they might make an argument against you possessing a weapon even in your own home.

I don't have anything to do with any of that. My concern is when I'm out in public. I have a right to lobby my politicians and support laws that limit your ability to carry and brandish weapons in public. I don't know about your state, but mine would lock me up if I "brandished," drew, or pointed my gun at somebody without fearing for my life.I don't want that shit around my kids,I'm not showing off my weapon to anybody, including your kids... I don't want people who think they're dimestore cowboys trying to save my life, I don't want vigilantes trying to take matters into their own hands. I'm not out to save anybodies life but mine and my loved ones. There are many, many good people on this earth, and a few bad ones. I don't want to bump into one of the few and have them ruin my life or the lives of my loved ones... I hope to carry the rest of my days and never have a good enough reason to draw my weapon, but I will train for if that day ever comes, that I will be prepared. Isn't being prepared better than woefully unprepared for contingencies? When I'm in public spaces I have a right to limit your behavior because it's both of our space--not yours and not mine.I respect your right but I also have a right to carry, lobby to be able to carry more places, and to defend me and mine from harm, and the reason I conceal is to not worry those that would worry about my "evil" gun. Like you evidentally... We, as a society, limit what people do in public that we don't limit when they are on private property for a whole range of behaviors.

The point is that home invasion stories are for another thread. Carrying a concealed weapon in public is an issue totally separate from possessing a firearm in one's home. So stories about saving lives while defending one's home is not relevant to this thread--demonstrating that carrying hidden weapons in public actually makes people more safe.
SO you're saying that that last story would be different if we transplanted the two people to a Mcdonald's or somewhere public? You would let that criminal shoot down a law abiding citizen and steal his wallet or whatever?
The only reason he posted that story is because the thread has run its course. After the initial spate of stories the well has run dry. There should be hundreds of thousands of stories of saved lives if the numbers are to be believed, but so far there hasn't been any such evidence despite how long this thread has lived.

Made a few comments...

[Sps]

When I'm in public spaces I have a right to limit your behavior because it's both of our space--not yours and not mine. We, as a society, limit what people do in public

I took a quote from your statement above here. This really bothers me. Why do people feel the right to limit Anything when it comes to others? Do you feel it is your civic duty to pull in front of me on the freeway going 60 when I am doing 80, to limit me? You are being the vigilanty here in a sort of way. You stated you do not want vigilanties and that is what is happening when you try to limit others.

I don't want to sound like I have an attitude towards you, but try to think deeper into this. There is way too much mentality of control in this country. If people were to mind their own business and take care of themselves, a lot of these issues and violence would be reduced. Too many people in others faces all the time.

[DER E30]

I took a quote from your statement above here. This really bothers me. Why do people feel the right to limit Anything when it comes to others? Do you feel it is your civic duty to pull in front of me on the freeway going 60 when I am doing 80, to limit me? You are being the vigilanty here in a sort of way. You stated you do not want vigilanties and that is what is happening when you try to limit others.

I don't want to sound like I have an attitude towards you, but try to think deeper into this. There is way too much mentality of control in this country. If people were to mind their own business and take care of themselves, a lot of these issues and violence would be reduced. Too many people in others faces all the time.

Agreed. I really don't care what you do, stay out of my business and I'll return the favor.
Try to hurt my loved ones and I'll return that favor, I don't want to sound like a bad guy and all that, I'm a peaceful person, BUT I'll defend mine if need be... Mr. Smooth, Would you not do the same for those you loved? With whatever means you deemed necessary?? I don't know about you, but I go into the world and like my ability to do that everywhere, not JUST at home...

I heard somewhere that an armed society is a polite society...

If we take the guns away from those that follow the law, all that will be left is the people that are already breaking the law with all the guns... Then what? We can't all have a personal cop around to defend us and our loved ones.

[smooth]

What the fuck is your guys problem? This is exactly why you raise peoples hackles. Being totally unreasonable for no reason. You take offense where none is given. You think people want to be around hostile people like yourselves toting guns?

Someone asked me why I thought there's a distinction between home defense and ccw. This isn't a thread about gun control. I didn't argue for taking anyone's rights away. I simply said there's a difference between the two spaces--what you do in your own home is your own business. What you do in the streets is everyone's business. This should be basic common sense and just being a generally well mannered citizen. The fact you want to jump someone's shit for expressing that very basic understanding of what it means to be a respectful citizen is exactly why I don't trust you with other peoples lives.

I don't have a problem with guns not do I think they're evil. I have a problem with people like you who can't seem to respect other peoples rights because you think your rights are the only ones that matter. You probably think the same thing about me when I say stay far away from me but there's a huge distinction you seem incapable of understanding: I'm not the one arguing for the right to choose whether someone lives or dies.

I heard somewhere that an armed society is a polite society...

If we take the guns away from those that follow the law, all that will be left is the people that are already breaking the law with all the guns... Then what? We can't all have a personal cop around to defend us and our loved ones.

Where'd you get this lil gem? The NRA? Millions of people are capable of being polite without being armed. If you can't be polite without threat of a gun then you have problem.

[mrsleeve]

^
While all that is true why do I have to rely on the state to protect me outside of my own property, when there is NO constitutional duty for those persons to protect me if they feel their life will be put into peril??? Why should my rights to defend myself or family be suspended at my front door or Property line if I am accosted some place else I have every right to be as well???? My rights to defend my own life should be suspend in favor of the state taking over that responsibly as soon as I leave my house is this really what you advocate for????

I took a quote from your statement above here. This really bothers me. Why do people feel the right to limit Anything when it comes to others? Do you feel it is your civic duty to pull in front of me on the freeway going 60 when I am doing 80, to limit me? You are being the vigilanty here in a sort of way. You stated you do not want vigilanties and that is what is happening when you try to limit others.

I don't want to sound like I have an attitude towards you, but try to think deeper into this. There is way too much mentality of control in this country. If people were to mind their own business and take care of themselves, a lot of these issues and violence would be reduced. Too many people in others faces all the time.

While I agree with you, When in public the limitations on Your rights start when you begin to encroach on the rights of others. merely carrying a weapon in Concealed manner is not encroaching on anyone else's rights so thats all good. Nor is open carry other than many people fear the fire arm as opposed to the person carrying it, many people have this notion that a firearm will jump from a holster and kill them all by it self, or that the only reason that a person would want a firearm is for nefarious intent. This is the mentality that people get the notion that their rights are being infringed upon, because they feel uncomfortable in a public space by a person with a firearm on their hip in the open. Its a false preconception and their own personal problem, but when they call 911 and say there is a "man with a gun" then it becomes OUR problem and in many cases results in a big headache for that person and the caller walks off with out any consequences for those actions in the lions share of incidents.

I prefer my OWB for my 220, I use it a lot while hiking and so on, for get to pull the pistol when I walk into get pizza or something, where I live most people understand that OC is legal and its not an issue. The Tourists and some of the transplants dont know this or like to ask why I feel the need to have a firearm in the grocery store in my little ski/resort town. Generally when I know I am going to town I CCW to avoid alarming people and avoid stupid people altercations.

[smooth]

^
While all that is true why do I have to rely on the state to protect me outside of my own property, when there is NO constitutional duty for those persons to protect me if they feel their life will be put into peril??? Why should my rights to defend myself or family be suspended at my front door or Property line if I am accosted some place else I have every right to be as well???? My rights to defend my own life should be suspend in favor of the state taking over that responsibly as soon as I leave my house is this really what you advocate for????

nope, where did I argue for gun control ccw or otherwise? you should carry a firearm if that's what you feel you need to survive the dangerous streets of the US in normal everyday life.

I simply pointed out that your story about home defense doesn't fall under a CCW discussion because it's simply not relevant. One doesn't need a CCW permit, or any permit as far as I'm aware of, to own a firearm in the home. so posting a story about a home owner saving her life is a feel good story but doesn't add much to the discussion in terms of illustrating the need for CCW.

Also, everyone in the middle of the debate doesn't care about home ownership. the discussion is about guns in the streets. that's all I was saying and as far as I know I haven't said anything else about the matter other than to say it's your right to lobby to do whatever you want in the streets without any kind of regulation just as much as its my right to say there should at least be sensible laws about the matter.

[mrsleeve]

^

Gotcha, if you look back through this fred, you will see that it started as CCW thread but has some what morphed into more of a legal defense with a fire arm, even if no shots were fired fred, fred.

[smooth]

Oh ok well I wasn't trying to be mini modding just voicing my opinion about the differences as I saw them :)

[ParsedOut]

I don't have a problem with guns not do I think they're evil. I have a problem with people like you who can't seem to respect other peoples rights because you think your rights are the only ones that matter.

You say that you're not anti-gun but then you say stuff like this. You have no right to be in a gun-free zone all the time while in public. You live in the United States of America. You can't claim we are infringing on rights you simply do not have. You have the choice to move to the protectionist states or to another country where only criminals and cops have guns...not sure about you but I wouldn't be willing to bet on those odds.

[frankenbeemer]

It's a nagging question smooth has alluded to: How to keep guns out of the hands of the irresponsible or criminal elements without limiting the individual right of self defense? Possibly off topic though.

[mrsleeve]

^

you cant do one with out the other and we would have to take all the firearms from the Govt if your wanting to keep them out of the hands of criminal elements

We have plenty of laws on the books that are intended to those ends. They seem to be fairly effective because most prohibited persons on the data base resort to theft or other unlawful means to gain access to firearms for what ever reason.

[einhander]

You say that you're not anti-gun but then you say stuff like this. You have no right to be in a gun-free zone all the time while in public. You live in the United States of America. You can't claim we are infringing on rights you simply do not have. You have the choice to move to the protectionist states or to another country where only criminals and cops have guns...not sure about you but I wouldn't be willing to bet on those odds.

It's nice of you to drop in from your fantasy world.

In South Carolina (or is it North?), you can carry guns in public buildings outside of government offices...they're banned in those places. You have the right to be there gun-free.

So, there goes your assertion and, while were at it, there goes a pro-firearm state government blowing holes in carry laws with its own twisted hypocrisy.

[ParsedOut]

It's nice of you to drop in from your fantasy world.

In South Carolina (or is it North?), you can carry guns in public buildings outside of government offices...they're banned in those places. You have the right to be there gun-free.

So, there goes your assertion and, while were at it, there goes a pro-firearm state government blowing holes in carry laws with its own twisted hypocrisy.

Nice of you to drop in as well, figured I'd draw you in. If you chose to READ my statement I said "all the time"...an important qualifier to my point.

Move along troll, don't bother me...move along troll, don't bother me.

[einhander]

Laughing. All the time.

"You people can have your guns sometimes, but not all the time."

That seems like infringement to me.

Why do you think they have the law written like this? Because they think gun wielding yahoos are safe or not safe?

[ParsedOut]

Laughing. All the time.

"You people can have your guns sometimes, but not all the time."

That seems like infringement to me.

Why do you think they have the law written like this? Because they think gun wielding yahoos are safe or not safe?

You love to give people shit for lack of reading comprehension but you missed it all together. smooth was complaining about no one considering his rights to be in a gun-free environment, he has no right to such in public (save for a few exceptions). Of course gun rights are being infringed upon, but that's another topic that you can troll when it comes around.