Flat tax

[e30e]

The bottom line is that NO tax system is going to be perfect.

But the www.fairtax.org would be a HUGE step in the right direction.

Thanks the rest of this thread is what makes five years hate there parents.

[mrsleeve]

Respect will be given when respect is due, but he's rarely, if ever, respectful to other members in these discussions. He also, aside from having brought up absolutely no points, has also yielded nothing but illogical and off-topic arguments.

The problem with having a FEDERAL set tax on people living below the poverty line is that another 15% off of their $240/week paychecks is another two meals that they can't eat or a tank of gas. It's placing more burden on local government (food stamps) as well as federal aid systems and could end up costing more than it'd bring in. There are plethora of reasons why taxing the poor MORE doesn't workout for anyone, but I'm sure you can breeze through a few articles that would explain it better than me.

Look here you left wing loon, 1st and for most, I have been here for a long time and have a rapport with many of the other regulars on here. We have a mutual and sometimes kinda hostile banter between us that comes with these types of discussions. Rarely is anyone crying them selves to sleep, you being the new guy in here may want to sit back and learn how shit works around here before you come in guns blazing talking the fool. So in short YES it does matter how long I have been on here and discussing such topics.

Like I said phone post are short and too the point, and some times and abbreviated point. Like my 1st post in this thread. e30e asked how it would help the budget and I told him how.

Next Heeter and Manic have mostly made the main points of why the Fair tax is viable and why the flat tax and our current method is a fucked way to do it.

Next you are aware of how much the of the base price of all the goods we buy are taxes right??? From corporate taxes, (manufacturers and sub contracted parts manufactures, Middle men, End retailer, the shippers to move the stuff from place to place) to energy, fuel, and so on all have to built into the cost of that widget How much do you think that is??? I dont have an precise number and I am not going to waste 3 hours looking for it either but I bet its equal to or greater than 23% purposed national sales tax.

Or did you forget every time you raise taxes on industry, you just raise the price of those goods by an equal percentage on the shelf plus a little more to handle the additional paper work and administrative costs. If you eliminate the income/corporate, taxes you will see the price of goods fall, as business fall all over them selves to get lower the prices on their products so people will buy them. You will also have 300m people with 30% more money in their pocket every week out there willing to buy them. Why is the logic so hard for you to understand. Never mind I know the answer.


If you would have bothered to read the and educate your self on the fair tax, or just keep from cherry picking, the 1 minor thing that supports your argument. You would also have learned EVERYONE in the nation would receive a "PREBATE" every month for the average amount of taxation on necessary goods, for their family. thus taking the taxation off the purchase of food, clothing and other necessities and not adding burden to the lower income earners. Your arguments against the fair tax fall apart at this point, since you are putting more money in the pockets of the poor every week and giving them, the money to pay the taxes on bulk of their day to day necessities. Wow so evil huh. Like I said govt loses the weapon of the IRS to threaten and punish individuals and industry at its whims and pick winners and losers via the tax code. This is why we will never see a reform such as this!!! It has nothing to do with adding the poor, as the fair tax would be a huge benefit to them in the long run.


I know I know tax the rich they dont deserve it they can afford to pay more so take it form them, blah blah blah, the standard eat rich, class war, class envy, bull shit your ilk spew. Your arguments are to help the poor, when all you are advocating for is to keep the relegated to the dregs of society and furthering of the modern day serfdom under the guise of miss guided compassion.

[squidmaster]

I don't care about your "rapport" on some internet message board. That means jack shit. The fact that you would even bring that up shows how much of an egotist that you are.

And man, your points just miss everything I feel so sorry for you.

You honestly think that a manufacturer paying between 20 and 35% on $0.20 worth of merchandise is the same as a consumer paying 30% tax for that same merchandise, but now at $15.00? Where do you get there whacky, right-wingtard ideas? Effective corporate tax rates have been falling steadily since the 60's and are at an all time low (about 2/3 what it was in 1947) and somehow the discrepancy between profit and taxation is at one of the highest rates?

I want to make one thing clear: I'm not against fair tax, however it WILL have bad impacts. It will also have good impacts. I'm rather indifferent. It needs work. It is imperfect. Etc.
It heavily favors the rich and hurts the poor... but any system really does that; at our current point however the system we have now doesn't hurt the impoverished half as bad as fair-tax would. Thus a regressive tax is necessary. They have "prebates" now that adjust for poverty lines though, but it is rather incomplete.

[squidmaster]

One thing that I can't find clarification on is:
in fair tax only new goods are taxed and not used goods, would this pertain to privately bought used cars as well?

[z31maniac]

used good sales aren't taxed now.

[squidmaster]

the original fair tax plan called for taxation of used goods as well. at least one draft did.

used cars are taxed at a state level. I'm asking how that would be affected.

[Kershaw]

used good sales aren't taxed now.

is that so?

used cars arent taxed now? lol. the e30 community would be so happy.

[squidmaster]

While reading through more fair tax stuff, I found this quotation from the official website talking about the current taxation system.

Studies estimate sales taxes paid by businesses to be about 40 percent of sales tax
collections on average.

so, CURRENTLY, if someone pays $1 tax on an item, that means that the business chain that got that item to the customer ended up paying $0.40 in taxes.
So if that item cost about $15, the customer would pay $1 in tax, the business chain (2, 3, 4, 5 businesses?) would converge payment of $0.40. However with fair tax the individual would pay $3 in sales tax, and the businesses would pay $0 leading to higher profits for the business, and increased executive pay.

http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/TheFairTaxWhatsInItForTheStates.pdf

plus it wouldn't necessarily dispose of the state sales tax, meaning you'd end up paying upwards of 40% tax per item. plus the government could tack on an income tax any time it wishes for any reason without warning thanks to the 16th amendment.

[mrsleeve]

I don't care about your "rapport" on some internet message board. That means jack shit. The fact that you would even bring that up shows how much of an egotist that you are.

And man, your points just miss everything I feel so sorry for you.

You honestly think that a manufacturer paying between 20 and 35% on $0.20 worth of merchandise is the same as a consumer paying 30% for that same merchandise, but now at $15.00? Where do you get there whacky, right-wingtard ideas?

WHERE you ask common sense, what would you do if your taxes are raised, just eat that cost, and lose money on each widget you make, thats not a good way to keep a business afloat now is it. I work for a small business, I KNOW OUR COST STRUCTURE, we dont build stuff, we provide necessary service and QA/QC Taxes are a significant percentage of our billing structure.

I will make this simple. Corporations DONT PAY FOR THE TAXES END CONSUMERS DO. The tax burden, fuel bills, (lots of taxes on fuel btw) the pay roll taxes UEI taxes, ect ect..... of everyone that thouches those things along the way. Thats all a SIGNIFICANT portion of the base cost of getting a product on a shelf somewhere, they will always be passed on down the line, to the end. Taxes are nothing more than an line on the balance sheet, no profit, no business for long, and taxes are an expense.

Thats not a wacky idea its how the world works, and always has.



Dont feel sorry for me, your ilk is the last I want feeling sorry for me, I dont want any part of your brand of compassion.

[squidmaster]

I owned and operated a small business for a number of years. Don't even try to lecture me like that.

Listen, I provided you with information, and you refute the information by regressing to earlier arguments that have since been disproved. I suggest you go back and reread the thread.

Now, go back to watching glenn beck and sean hannity and having sex with your dog or cat or sister or whatever you choose to rape tonight. Or maybe "call up the boys" and go wrangle yourselves one of them japs or a homosexual. Show them who the big men are.

[mrsleeve]

I owned and operated a small business for a number of years. Don't even try to lecture me like that.

.

I think I have a good idea why thats past tense. You have a hard time understanding how to run it, except into the ground I would suspect. Since if you would understand my point other wise.


I will ignore your piss poor personal attacks, and name calling that your type always resort too when you get frustrated.

[squidmaster]

you were the first one to "call names" if you recall....

my reasons for leaving are my own, but the business grew under my leadership.

[mrsleeve]

So did berine madoffs too.

yes making a reference to a being a bit off base = retorting with bestiality, incestual, gay and complete with asian racial slur rape huh Your a tool.

[rwh11385]

Read my above post about taxing the poor more than they already are.

Listen, when I was younger and on food stamps and could only spent $25 a week on food for two people, having a 30% tax on the food we bought would have been way worse than only having to pay state taxes on our paychecks. To a lot of people that make MORE than federal poverty level it's not as much of an issue.
In 2010 over 12% of people in the US were living below the poverty level. about 50% of all americans will spend at least a year below the poverty line. If we increase the price of essential goods while relaxing their measly state income taxes it won't add up for them. It'll end up, in most cases, costing more for them to live.

So your only problem with Fair Tax is you don't think the prebate is enough, or what?

[squidmaster]

So did berine madoffs too.

yes making a reference to a being a bit off base = retorting with bestiality, incestual, gay and complete with asian racial slur rape huh Your a tool.

I was just quoting your night. Using it in the most disdainful of ways and not to inflict any harm onto the named. Calling someone a racist doesn't make one a racist. Though by your logic so far it would.