Congrats obama

[rwh11385]

and delayed since june because fear of administration support would be fodder for romeny all summer


butt hurt sound bite boy its obvious you have not read this thing. I have read a big portion of it.

For starters, it would require the US government to keep track of any gun purchase by a US citizen and if that firearm was imported from a foreign manufacturer (gun registration), which is bad enough, but then they must also provide that registration information to the exporting foreign government.

Now not only does Uncle Sam know about every gun in your house, but so do the foreign countries from which your guns originated.

it was moved to the end of OCT from Mid june because.......... Election year

So by their accounts they say it was worked on July 2-27, not June. And I read that after all that time, they couldn't come to a conclusion. Some said Obama could have done more, but are you really trying to say that the UN has been trying to develop an arms treaty since 2006 and strong-armed by the President to move their entire process so it better suited his re-election??

And I'm not sure where you are reading about it and what people are saying it is about, but looking at a draft, it wants to control the trade between countries and have countries continue within their borders by their national laws. Unless I'm missing where it states that intra-nation rules should change which I didn't see... only the import/export is different. You could have it shipped to a broker/dealer and have them be on record, couldn't you? For the record, registration isn't found once in the draft I'm reading. There's a lot of things that require information about items being traded... but they don't track necessarily where it goes after it lands at the docks.

The aim of the treaty is to track battle tanks, armored combat vehicles, artillery systems, combat aircraft, attack helicopters, warships, missiles.... and then small arms / light weapons. So why make it sound like they only care about your guns, and why are you so lost in the big picture?

[tjts1]

And I'm not sure where you are reading about it and what people are saying it is about, but looking at a draft, it wants to control the trade between countries and have countries continue within their borders by their national laws. Unless I'm missing where it states that intra-nation rules should change which I didn't see... only the import/export is different. You could have it shipped to a broker/dealer and have them be on record, couldn't you? For the record, registration isn't found once in the draft I'm reading. There's a lot of things that require information about items being traded... but they don't track necessarily where it goes after it lands at the docks.

Obviously you're not familiar with Mrsleeve other imaginary persona.

[mrsleeve]

June/July hell I have been busy this summer. I remember having a discussion somewhere about this some time about then. Sorry I am functioning on memory.

The UN has been going after the small arms treaty thing since 96 IIRC and on some levels as far back as the 60's.

You really think it was just a coincidence that this Vote to go forward with the new arms treaty talks was pushed back to just before the election in an Election year??


Come on heeter you know me well enough to know that I will call a spade a spade, but I am not way out there off the deep end, Ruby Ridge style.

I will take some time tomorrow and see if I can find where I got my source info. It was a main stream, cretiable source as well, not something like info wars or beck.

[rwh11385]

June/July hell I have been busy this summer. I remember having a discussion somewhere about this some time about then. Sorry I am functioning on memory.

The UN has been going after the small arms treaty thing since 96 IIRC and on some levels as far back as the 60's.

You really think it was just a coincidence that this Vote to go forward with the new arms treaty talks was pushed back to just before the election in an Election year??


Come on heeter you know me well enough to know that I will call a spade a spade, but I am not way out there off the deep end, Ruby Ridge style.

Honestly dude, you cut the power on your OnStar because you don't want anyone to be able to track you and can go off the grid... you are a bit paranoid. I'll call a spade a spade... you are simply relying on correlation = causation and missing the big picture. Plus, not even seeing that the draft is about trade between two countries with the domestic market remaining dictated by the individual countries' laws.

Convenient? Maybe. Was he motivated to help wrap it up after not being able to finish in a month? Maybe not. Can you force a large group to settle on a decision, particularly an international one, and especially one that has taken weeks upon weeks thus far? Failing to magically make everyone agree and "coincidence" does not provide meaningful proof or give your accusation a leg to stand on.

Do you REALLY think is it a giant conspiracy for one person to shove under a rug an effort to stop dictators slaughtering people for his best interests and it also being an underhanded strategy to prevent you from buying cool foreign guns and tracking you, even if the draft makes NO MENTION OF IT? No.

Unless you have clear facts that this treaty is going to directly jeopardize your 2nd amendment freedom, and not just repeat some opinion or rumor from your underground bunker-filling survivalist friends, please don't declare such statements as factual.

Update for your update:

I will take some time tomorrow and see if I can find where I got my source info. It was a main stream, cretiable source as well, not something like info wars or beck.

http://www.acronym.org.uk/sites/default/files/ATT%20Draft%20text%2024%20july.pdf

"Each State Party shall take the appropriate measures, within national laws and regulations, to control brokering taking place under its jurisdiction for conventional arms within the scope of this Treaty."

We already have agencies and laws concerning guns within our borders, and I saw nothing that stated the UN treaty would change any part of the actions once it enters US jurisdiction.

At least Heritage points out simply: http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/13/...ond-amendment/

Let’s start with three basic points:
No external power, and certainly not the U.N., can disarm U.S. citizens or deprive us of our Second Amendment rights by force. If there is a Second Amendment problem, it comes from the actions of U.S. authorities.

Obviously there's a million loony-bin tin-foil people calling it a gun grab and going to steal all your rifles away. But those people don't actually read what they are talking about half the time, and certainly don't go to the conference like the Heritage writer. And the concerns were potential issues but simply questions - not as a fact that the UN is attempting to police guns in the US.

[joshh]

Oh Josh.

We weren't planning on having a baby until I was out of college in a couple years, and that is why she took birth control. Obviously, birth control is not 100% effective. We found out early enough that we could have chosen to not have the baby, but neither of us wanted that, we wanted to keep our baby without a doubt.

Yes, I bought a 1977 280Z two years ago for a grand and haven't even been able to put a dime into this year. No, my avatar pic is not my car. Yes, I own the E30 in my sig which I bought from a forum member a year ago, and since I bought it the only money I have put into it is regular maintenance (and not very much). I did have around $4,000 saved up for college a while back, but I had to use nearly all of it to fix my old Trooper before I sold it. Want to doubt me more? Go ahead.

Also, someone commented saying that I wasn't a leach because I was trying, and that the actual leaches are those people who do nothing and just collect unemployment.. I don't know where you live, but here in AZ you cannot just collect unemployment.

Let's just put it this way. You may think you have it tough. But based on the couple of posts you have here, you have no fucking idea what tough times are. Keep warm and comfy in your parents place while getting help from the government and driving a very nice car compared to what many people have for transportation. You even have a $1k project car sitting there you could potentially sell. Let me know when you're eating pancakes for dinner and putting three pieces of Budding cold slices on your sandwiches for lunch. While walking two miles each way to work because you can't afford the bus tickets. Try that kind of shit on for size and tell me how it feels.

[rwh11385]

Another good article right here:

The center-right has got to have it out with the far-right, or it is going to be a minority party for a long time.

Many in the next generation of America know climate change is real, and they want to see something done to mitigate it. Many in the next generation of America will be of Hispanic origin and insist on humane immigration reform that gives a practical legal pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants. The next generation is going to need immigration of high-I.Q. risk-takers from India, China and Latin America if the U.S. is going to remain at the cutting edge of the Information Technology revolution and be able to afford the government we want. Many in the next generation of America see gays and lesbians in their families, workplaces and Army barracks, and they don’t want to deny them the marriage rights held by others. The G.O.P. today is at war with too many in the next generation of America on all of these issues.

All that said, my prediction is that the biggest domestic issue in the next four years will be how we respond to changes in technology, globalization and markets that have, in a very short space of time, made the decent-wage, middle-skilled job — the backbone of the middle class — increasingly obsolete. The only decent-wage jobs will be high-skilled ones.

The answer to that challenge will require a new level of political imagination — a combination of educational reforms and unprecedented collaboration between business, schools, universities and government to change how workers are trained and empowered to keep learning. It will require tax reforms and immigration reforms. America today desperately needs a center-right G.O.P. that is offering merit-based, market-based approaches to all these issues — and a willingness to meet the other side halfway. The country is starved for practical, bipartisan cooperation, and it will reward politicians who deliver it and punish those who don’t.

That last bit is definitely what we are missing and what we need to grow and improve as a country.

[Vedubin01]

its been sometime since I looked at the bill and I might be talking out of my ass. But what this does is limits countries purchasing from companies that manufacture in others. Example Colt, produces the M16 rifle for more than just the US military. A lot of Nato forces use the M16 platform. This will cut deep into Colts bottom line and could cause manufactures to close or consolidate if the GOV allows it. Most manufactures dont really account for civilian sales.

This will also limit imports into this country. Driving costs of weapons already in this country to rise.

Feinstein is also rumored to be working on a semi-auto ban with no grandfather clause.

http://www.examiner.com/article/feinstein-rumored-to-be-pushing-semi-auto-ban-if-obama-reelected

[LBJefferies]

its been sometime since I looked at the bill and I might be talking out of my ass. But what this does is limits countries purchasing from companies that manufacture in others. Example Colt, produces the M16 rifle for more than just the US military. A lot of Nato forces use the M16 platform. This will cut deep into Colts bottom line and could cause manufactures to close or consolidate if the GOV allows it. Most manufactures dont really account for civilian sales.

This will also limit imports into this country. Driving costs of weapons already in this country to rise.

Feinstein is also rumored to be working on a semi-auto ban with no grandfather clause.

http://www.examiner.com/article/fein...bama-reelected

Can you even enforce something like a no-grandfather clause? There seems to be so much precedent for grandfathering that challenging it would be unwise.

[Vedubin01]

Can you even enforce something like a no-grandfather clause? There seems to be so much precedent for grandfathering that challenging it would be unwise.

Confiscation would be the only way. Or tax them like Class 3 weapons and most will turn them in or hide them. Doing that would drive the price of the weapons 100+ fold . This would make it not affordable for the average person to own a firearm.


(ex class 3 weapons AR15 lower $100 vs Form 4 M16 lower pre 86 $12-15k current prices - only difference is one cost 10 cents more to make and it was made before the 86 ban)

[rwh11385]

its been sometime since I looked at the bill and I might be talking out of my ass. But what this does is limits countries purchasing from companies that manufacture in others. Example Colt, produces the M16 rifle for more than just the US military. A lot of Nato forces use the M16 platform. This will cut deep into Colts bottom line and could cause manufactures to close or consolidate if the GOV allows it. Most manufactures dont really account for civilian sales.

This will also limit imports into this country. Driving costs of weapons already in this country to rise.

What do you mean limit? Do you (and then how do you) see the treaty preventing a US supplier from selling guns to a NATO member??


To put into perspective,

Overseas weapons sales by the United States totaled $66.3 billion last year, or more than three-quarters of the global arms market

It's not like the United States is going to let the UN hurt their sales too bad (it is ~0.4% of GDP). BUT when we sell F-15s to Saudi Arabia, you better believe there is close tracking of the arms. It's about accountability, not prevention of legitimate trade.

[der affe]

Goddammit man. What in the flying fuck has Obama done that is SOOOOOO reprehensible? The man doesn't even make the laws for God sakes, CONGRESS DOES!!!

People put too much significance on the Presidential election when the real focus should be on those ass holes on Congress with 40 year careers in politics. Those are the ones you should be pissed off at.

one of the better and more true statements ITT. don't they make you kiddies take GOV/ECON to graduate HS anymore?

[tjts1]

One of the more positive developments has been the realization among billionares that massive donations through secretive super pacs can't buy elections.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...-of-money.html

Rove, through his two political groups, American Crossroads and Crossroads Grassroots Policy Strategies, backed unsuccessful Republican presidential contender Mitt Romney with $127 million on more than 82,000 television spots, according to Kantar Media’s CMAG, an ad tracker based in New York. Ten of the 12 Senate candidates and four of the nine House candidates they supported also lost their races.

“Right now there is stunned disbelief that Republicans fared so poorly after all the money they invested,” said Brent Bozell, president of For America, an Alexandria-based nonprofit that advocates for Christian values in politics. “If I had 1/100th of Karl Rove’s money, I would have been more productive than he was.”
Donald Trump posted a message on Twitter saying: “Congrats to @KarlRove on blowing $400 million this cycle. Every race @CrossroadsGPS ran ads in, the Republicans lost. What a waste of money.”

[PNWDan]

congrats to all the freeloaders

[nando]

Confiscation would be the only way.

I don't see that happening, ever. that would be basically a civil war. I hope nobody on the left is that dumb.

[slammin.e28]

I don't see that happening, ever. that would be basically a civil war. I hope nobody on the left is that dumb.