Government Dependence

[rwh11385]

Hey I am all for nasa and am of the mind set the heavy lift/maned program should neever have been phased out, or additional resources should have been commisioned when a replacment for the shuttle program was not going to be ready in time.

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-02-01/tech/nasa.budget.moon_1_space-exploration-nasa-administrator-charlie-bolden-nasa-programs?_s=PM:TECH

On its Web site, the White House Budget Office says the program to send astronauts to the moon is behind schedule, over budget and overall less important than other space investments.

"Using a broad range of criteria, an independent review panel determined that even if fully funded, NASA's program to repeat many of the achievements of the Apollo era, 50 years later, was the least attractive approach to space exploration as compared to potential alternatives," the site says.

"Furthermore, NASA's attempts to pursue its moon goals, while inadequate to that task, had drawn funding away from other NASA programs, including robotic space exploration, science, and Earth observations."

They cut Constellation but kept on other space exploration research and development. The attack that it was the elimination of manned space flight research for climate change is pretty inaccurate. The primary change in strategy was to get businesses to invest in spaceflight to replace the shuttle and have been quite successful. A lot of tech tycoons are chasing their CCdev money.

http://www.nasa.gov/offices/c3po/partners/ccdev_partners.html

[Cephas]

For everyone who has a job and likes to bitch and moan that the "freeloaders" are out there sitting on their asses, collecting checks and food stamps and free cell phones, I pose to you a challenge:

Quit your job. Give away all your savings and assets. Sell your house and move in to a small, spartan apartment in a bad neighborhood. Then try living on welfare and food stamps for 2 years.

Report back to us in Nov 2014 and let us know how "easy" it was.

Do you honestly not recognize the fallacy inherent in this idea? The reason anyone with a good job wouldn't do this is because they probably worked hard in some way, shape or form to get that job. What did someone on welfare do to get the check, the apartment and the food? Nothing. And so there's no pride, no self worth and no feeling of responsibility. That's why the neighborhood blows...

I wouldn't sell my stuff and give it away because I worked damn hard to get where I am, and there are millions across this nation who manned/womaned up and did the same thing.

Here's a novel idea: how about our government stops getting involved in everything and let's the market dictate what's needed; ya know, that ancient idea of free market capitalism... let the market force companies that do bad things or aren't needed to fail. Dont bail them out. Let the higher education services of the nation be good, or fail. Dont subsidize loans so kids can go in debt for an education they wont be able to use. Dont force every kid to magically graduate, let them fail. And so on and so on.

[Massimo]

Just like we may follow budgets, spending less or near the amount we bring in so, too, should government. We should look at our budgets and when times are tough we make those decisions to knock out things.. dropping services, cut our own hair, change our own oil, mow our own lawn, downgrade cable/TV/internet/cell, etc.

I do not understand why this is not something all governments stride to do. Why do they all over spend? What financial experts would ever tell you to spend more then what you earn.

i know a lot of people especially around the d.c. area for some reason that dont have dreams, they are just not motivated quiet sad.... while I am busting my ass because I care about the company ect.... w/e kinda sucks when people don't care, kills the vibe sometimes.

I don't live in the US but this is very true over here. You can give people all the education they could ever need for free. But they would rather just sit around and do fuck all because they have no dreams or motivation. I don't think it is such a case of weather the facilities are avalible. It is more the fact they just don't care.

I don't know how you make people want to succeed but I am sure there is a way.

Just wanted to give you guys an Idea what a single mum here will make on wellfare with one kid. $800pw plus retal assistance plus electricity and water bills paid for, plus other minor benifits like health care ect. In comparison I make $850pw and I have been in my field for 5 years and have a diploma to back me up.

EDIT: I also wanted to say I think wellfare people should be made to work for there money doing shitty jobs like cleaning public toilets, cleaning grafity ect ect.

[mrsleeve]

I do not understand why this is not something all governments stride to do. Why do they all over spend? What financial experts would ever tell you to spend more then what you earn.

Its how they get into power by promising free shit from the govt, at the expense of everyone else. See my Sig quotes for a historic perspective on this topic.

I don't know how you make people want to succeed but I am sure there is a way.



EDIT: I also wanted to say I think wellfare people should be made to work for there money doing shitty jobs like cleaning public toilets, cleaning grafity ect ect.

I think you kinda answered your own question there............

I know this is an American icon but I am sure even you guys in upside down land have heard of him.

I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer

This was in the 1780's (IIRC when he wrote that), and your listed example up there about your guys public assistance is very good modern real world example of what Mr Franklin is trying to say.....

[rwh11385]

Why do they all over spend? What financial experts would ever tell you to spend more then what you earn. ...I don't live in the US

Yeah... the US is weird and people on the whole were spending more than they took home. Living on credit with a safety pin. Fortunately, people are more reasonable now - although that decreases growth rate it is more sustainable. We saw what happened to the world's economy when the house of [credit] cards and subprime mortgages came tumbling down.

http://www.nuwireinvestor.com/articl...ate-51005.aspx [January 29, 2007]

For the past two years, and for the first time since the Great Depression, Americans are spending more than they earn. In 2006, Americans saved at a rate of negative 1 percent, according to statistics released February 1 by the Commerce Department, meaning they not only spent all of their after-tax income, they also dipped into their savings or increased the amount they borrowed. The savings rate in 2005 was negative 0.4 percent.

Many families in America are living above their means. As the gap between the rich and the poor grows, many people spend more money than they have in an effort to keep up with the proverbial Joneses. A lot of people assume that they have all the money they need in the equity in their house; people are using home equity for everything from new cars to vacations.

Many Americans likely believe that, because their investments are accruing good returns, they are financially secure and don’t need to save any money on top of their investments. Some assume they don’t have to save any additional income, because they contribute to a 401(k) or IRA. While investments are of course a means of saving, the negative personal savings rate means that many Americans might be without the commonly recommended savings cushion intended to last three to six months.

Real moronic shit. Epic stupidity. And it translated up to government who spent to try to fix things the Keynesian way instead of the right way. The country always assumed that they could have a high enough GDP growth rate to make their spending growth rate alright... but it have not worked out so well. Just like Americans learned to not take on as much debt, the government does need to learn how to control its budget... but previously the population was horribly dumb itself. Perhaps still spoiled from the Clinton years and hoped that the dot-com bubble burst and effects of 9/11 were temporary and if they kept spending it would go back to before.


Here's a chart that shows how people's rate of technology adoption has changed to keep up with the Joneses:

[Cephas]

Its how they get into power by promising free shit from the govt, at the expense of everyone else.

Exactly. A government that the majority of people are dependent upon is one that they will always vote to keep in power.

I wonder what would happen if a law was passed that anyone who is taking government assistance is not allowed to vote while they are doing so. That would lead to some very different mantras being tossed around.

People would want to better their lives and more importantly, so would their government!

[ethrtyiS]

i know plenty. they really know how to cheat the system well too.

take a look at england for example. they were once a very strong country with a very strong and striving economy.

my mother, who was born in england shared something with me a while back that her father told her. he told her, "the english are the laziest workers (or people, i can't remember) in the world." she asked him why is that and he replied with, "because they rely to heavily on the government for assistance; so many of them stopped striving to become something great of themselves and stopped achieving greatness. they get simple, easy jobs to pay for extra expenses and then rely on the government checks, healthcare, etc."

many, not all, but many of my relatives and family who still live there are exactly this. they work simple easy jobs, have children, and collect government checks and other assistance. this is why europe has nearly gone bankrupt. there just isn't enough money to go around.

everyone who thinks they are entitled to free things such as government checks, welfare, obamaphones, obamacare, food stamps, etc. have no clue and/or refuse to look at the big picture. none of that is free. i have to pay for things like that. and i'm sure many of you who work and pay taxes have to as well. nothing is free in life, plain and simple.

many may argue and be in denial, but the sad truth is, it's only going to get worse. it may be a "few" now, but it will only progressively get worse. especially since the democrat party like to preach and brainwash about how terrible capitalism is. imagine this country without capitalism...ha.

[BraveUlysses]

Cool anecdotal story bro

[Morrison]

Maybe food stamps and other things are easier to get in the UK. Here in the US its not nearly as easy as you might think. And by the way, what has O done thats made it in any way easier for people to qualify for benefits?

I can tell you one thing Reagan did that made it easier for people to get benefits; he opened the door for people to get SSDI and SSI due to mental disorders and back pain during the SSA reform ACT of 1984.

The effects of that 1984 bill:

In a 2006 analysis by economists David Autor and Mark Duggan for the National Bureau of Economic Research, Autor and Duggan wrote that the act has been the most significant factor in recent growth of SSDI usage.[8] The share of the U.S. population receiving SSDI benefits has risen rapidly over the past two decades, from 2.2 percent of adults age 25 to 64 in 1985 to 4.1 percent in 2005.[9]

Perhaps you're blaming the wrong guy?

[nando]

Here's a chart that shows how people's rate of technology adoption has changed to keep up with the Joneses:

I'm kind of shocked that 1/3 of americans have no internet and 1/4 have no computer.

I understand the benefits and arguments for/against fiat money. I agree with Ron Paul that it has allowed our government to spend more than it takes in. I'm just not sure that a gold standard is better. also, our current deflated dollar is probably helping our manufacturing industry. Everyone wants a strong dollar but I'm not sure they understand what that really means. It would be better to reduce dependence on foreign energy imports and make our exports competetive.

[Vedubin01]

what has anyone heard about this...

http://www.pakalertpress.com/2012/11/26/use-of-rfid-tracking-technology-to-be-mandatory-in-us-food-stamp-program-2/

[nando]

while I think that is scary, it's for reasons other than a fantasy belief in the bible.

also, apparently that article is from.. 1999. That just reinforces my belief that bible thumpers are batshit insane.

finally:

RFID (and GPS) chips are not allowed to be implanted in humans per USDA and FDA regulations.

But, don't let facts get in the way of wild beliefs. They never stopped you before.

[Vedubin01]

finally:


But, don't let facts get in the way of wild beliefs. They never stopped you before.

As I was reading more, it looks like Gov does allow these to be implanted on a voluntary basis. And would only be a misdemeanor if an employer forces its employees to have them.

[CorvallisBMW]

what has anyone heard about this...


http://www.pakalertpress.com/2012/11...amp-program-2/

A quick summary of the featured stories from the front page of their website:

"List Of All Fema Concentration Camps In America"

"Illuminati Symbolism at the 2012 MTV VMAS"

"Atlantis Found: Giant Sphinxes, Pyramids In Bermuda Triangle"

"ALL AMERICANS WILL RECEIVE A MICROCHIP IMPLANT IN 2013 PER OBAMACARE"

"Giant Crystal Pyramid Discovered In Bermuda Triangle"

"Satanist Pedophiles Rule Great Britain"

"World's Waters turn Blood-Red"

Sounds like a totally legitimate source for news & information :loco:

[CorvallisBMW]

As I was reading more, it looks like Gov does allow these to be implanted on a voluntary basis. And would only be a misdemeanor if an employer forces its employees to have them.

If you believe a single thing from that website, I've got some fantastic prime skiing lodges in FL I'd like to sell you :)