Obamacareless begins...

[nando]

uh, yeah, they'll loan you as much money as you need to pay for the costs. they're not going to give it to you.

Just like a bank will gladly loan you more than you can afford to buy a house. doesn't mean you can actually afford it.

I wonder - have you price compared costs/benefits of different insurance programs? no? why's that? Oh yeah - under the current system, you can't! Insurance companies would like it to stay that way too. there's no competition because it's impossible to compare prices. free market you say? you're dreaming..

[Vedubin01]

I wonder - have you price compared costs/benefits of different insurance programs? no? why's that? Oh yeah - under the current system, you can't! Insurance companies would like it to stay that way too. there's no competition because it's impossible to compare prices. free market you say? you're dreaming..

AS you know or might know, I had a round of cancer for 9 years. I still pay on that. But I have worked deals where I can make small monthly payments based on how much I earn. Very livable.

The hospitals saved my life and the least I can do it make a payment on the bills due.

I also agree with you on how the current system is locked, where you cant shop for health care, but Obama care is nothing but the first step in a single payer insurance system. Nothing but going from a Private program to Government program. Now enforced by the IRS.

[nando]

interesting you bring that up - but the single payer systems are more efficient. what's the overhead on a private insurance company? about 20-25%. it's less than 1/4 of that for Medicaid/Medicare.

there's also something inherently wrong with people making huge profits off other people getting sick. pay the doctors, nurses, and hospitals, sure. Do we really want our health care being run by corporations who's only agenda is share price increases?

[Vedubin01]

interesting you bring that up - but the single payer systems are more efficient. what's the overhead on a private insurance company? about 20-25%. it's less than 1/4 of that for Medicaid/Medicare.

there's also something inherently wrong with people making huge profits off other people getting sick. pay the doctors, nurses, and hospitals, sure. Do we really want our health care being run by corporations who's only agenda is share price increases?

Open competition is more efficient than any single payer system. When businesses have to compete for business they become more streamlined and efficient. Show me 1 thing that the Gov is efficient at?

There is a lot of things that Medicaid/care do not pay for and that falls back on the patient. Also charged a high interest rate.

Go fuck up on your taxes and see what the IRS does to you in interest and penalty. Talk about the highest RAPE ever! And they can lock your accounts for non or late payment and garnish your wages. And these are the guys that will be enforcing Ocare.

Reason the US has the best health care is due to the fact its lucrative. And the world benefits by our health care inventions.

Not everyone can be a brain surgeon. And those that are, are compensated for it. More fairly than say a major league baseball player. But I guess that is the society that we live in.

[nando]

I just did. the Medicaid/Medicare systems are 4x more efficient than any private insurance company. No, they don't cover everything - but ACA expands what they do cover, so I don't see your point?

If "private competition" (which we do not have, by any stretch of the imagination) is so much better, then why does our system lag behind while costing many times more than anyone else?

I don't think you'll find many would agree we have the best healthcare system. Not even close. We spend the most by far, but our quality of care lags most developed and even some 2nd tier nations.

I didn't say doctors shouldn't be paid. But the fact that our insurance companies are raking in the dough, with their only goal being increased value for share holders, when nobody can afford the 10-20% yearly increases in health care costs - and you say it's the best system? huh?

It's interesting to hear people complain about how much it's going to cost. if all it does is STOP the current increases in costs (or even slow them down), we'll be better off. that seems pretty likely to me.

[Gary Horneck]

I'm on Medicare. I've had multiple - expensive - surgeries. What is it that Medicare does not cover? Sure there is a co-pay, but there will always be. My back surgery last year was billed at $262,000, they covered everything.

[Vedubin01]

I just did. the Medicaid/Medicare systems are 4x more efficient than any private insurance company. No, they don't cover everything - but ACA expands what they do cover, so I don't see your point?

If "private competition" (which we do not have, by any stretch of the imagination) is so much better, then why does our system lag behind while costing many times more than anyone else?

I don't think you'll find many would agree we have the best healthcare system. Not even close. We spend the most by far, but our quality of care lags most developed and even some 2nd tier nations.

I didn't say doctors shouldn't be paid. But the fact that our insurance companies are raking in the dough, with their only goal being increased value for share holders, when nobody can afford the 10-20% yearly increases in health care costs - and you say it's the best system? huh?

It's interesting to hear people complain about how much it's going to cost. if all it does is STOP the current increases in costs (or even slow them down), we'll be better off. that seems pretty likely to me.

Medicaid/care runs a deficit each year. If it was not for the gov printing money and funding programs like these, they would be closed. So I don't call that efficient at all.

As for the Private Competition, you are right. But that is big business infused with gov. Big business paying off Gov in not opening up the markets.

As far as the US being 1st in healthcare, where would you go if you had a chance to choose if you were sick?


To the guy that is on Medicaid/Care, there are different levels of their services. Depending on how much you make. Id be interested in hearing your situation. Its not the same for all.

My current girl friend is on Medicaid/Care and she has to pay for several things for a surgery she just had. Im talking to her now about this and she said she has a bill for $2500 for consultation and for the Anesthesiologists not covered by her Medicaid/care.

Her daughter has 2 cavities and went to the dentist. They have to send a report to the Medicaid/care office and Medicaid/Care chooses what tooth is going to be fixed. She has been waiting for just over 7 weeks now. Tell that to an 8 year old girl with a cavity.

[nando]

it runs a deficit because it's not adequately funded - that doesn't have anything to do with it's overhead costs, does it? it means if you want $1 of care, medicare/Medicaid costs you $1.05, but a private insurance company costs you $1.20-$1.25. Does that make sense?

If I had a choice, time, and money - I'd go wherever the care was #1. chances are, that wouldn't be in the USA. it'd probably be Canada or somewhere in the EU.

guess what? I took my child in for some tooth issues. I got stuck with a $1k bill after what insurance covered, and I pay $200 a month for my coverage, and he's done for the year - can't charge any more to insurance!

When my 2nd child was born in the USA, I had to pay about $4k over what insurance covered (on top of premiums and up front co-pays). My 1st child was born in Canada - the bill was $0, and the quality of care was on par.

What is your point exactly?

[Vedubin01]

it runs a deficit because it's not adequately funded - that doesn't have anything to do with it's overhead costs, does it? it means if you want $1 of care, medicare/Medicaid costs you $1.05, but a private insurance company costs you $1.20-$1.25. Does that make sense?

If I had a choice, time, and money - I'd go wherever the care was #1. chances are, that wouldn't be in the USA. it'd probably be Canada or somewhere in the EU.

guess what? I took my child in for some tooth issues. I got stuck with a $1k bill after what insurance covered, and I pay $200 a month for my coverage, and he's done for the year - can't charge any more to insurance!

When my 2nd child was born in the USA, I had to pay about $4k over what insurance covered (on top of premiums and up front co-pays). My 1st child was born in Canada - the bill was $0, and the quality of care was on par.

What is your point exactly?

Nando, I dont know your background and Im guessing you were not born here? I dont know your family situation either, married, how many kids etc.

Look I agree, I have more hate stories than most in regards to insurance companies. Blue Cross can suck my dick! But the Ocare is not the answer either. To say its not properly funded is absurd. Its the most funded program of any state. About 22 percent of total spending FY 2010.
Fix the fraud and it might be able to withstand its current funding.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/23/60minutes/main5414390.shtml

The simple deal is this, you have to pay into the system to get the benefits of the system. Ocare and the current Medicaid/care is not that way. Hence why they run deficits. Its not about under budget. Its because the gov is the easiest "company" to run games on. They cover those that have not paid into, or cant pay into. There is no real checks and balances and accountability. Why, because the .gov can just print more.

[tjts1]

Then why do so many people from those countries come here to place's like the Mayo or cleveland clinic to get their major care needs met????

They don't. Thats bull shit you just pulled out of you ass.

[nando]

I'm an American citizen - I was born here, so were my parents, and my grandparents, and some native ancestors that go back further than I'll ever know. but, that's irrelevant. :p

so we need to fix fraud - I agree. there is lots of private health care insurance fraud happening too.

but how would we know ACA won't make things better? I mean, having the choice of insurance based on cost/benefit that everyone can access seems like a bad idea to you?

Is the current system really better - where you only really have one choice (your employer, if you have one) and there is zero way of comparing costs between insurance options?

[mrsleeve]

They don't. Thats bull shit you just pulled out of you ass.

You have never been to either of the facilities I have mentioned then either, to witness it for your self.

you or I couldn't afford to go to either of those places, even with our decent benefits and pay - and you know it.

I cant???? My H/C allows me to go ANYWHERE in the country and see any doc/specialist I choose to see , at nearly any facility I wish. Max out of pocket a year for me and my family (right now its still just me as I dont have any qualifying dependents and technically single) of 2300 a year. I have a great benefits package, but as you well know it does not come without its down side

My MIL (for lack of a better term) has one of the worst H/C packages I have ever seen for a R/N. She chose to have her heart valve replaced spring of 2012 at the Cleveland Clinic. her shitty H/C package tried to get her to do it locally where she would have had maybe 500 in out of pocket expense, but they do maybe 3 valve replacements a year, Vs her surgeon at Cleveland that does 3 a day, did it cost a little more sure but not cost prohibitive to chose this route. (when its your own life there is something to be said about proficiency when it comes to picking a surgeon for shit like this) . Needless to say my in-laws are not wealthy, they are the modern quintessential definition of middle class yet some how they got served at one of those for the wealthy only places and they were glad to have her there


Edit: The little woman loses her H/C in 8 days thanks to the inception of 0 care, its going to be a struggle to find her comparable coverage to what she has now via what is going to be available though 0 care, and likely to cost us even more. Yes we buy her coverage, always have found a way to make those payments, even when we were more broke than a R3v College kid

[herbivor]

The little woman loses her H/C in 8 days thanks to the inception of 0 care, its going to be a struggle to find her comparable coverage to what she has now via what is going to be available though 0 care, and likely to cost us even more. Yes we buy her coverage, always have found a way to make those payments, even when we were more broke than a R3v College kid

So I guess she is going to compare prices on the exchange then? Let us know what she ends up going with and if it is comparable/ more expensive or less expensive. I'm curious.

[rwh11385]

Open competition is more efficient than any single payer system. When businesses have to compete for business they become more streamlined and efficient.

Sooooooooo... aren't these private exchanges going to increase competition and help make the system more efficient? Or is it simply a bad idea because it's called Obamacare?

I wonder - have you price compared costs/benefits of different insurance programs? no? why's that? Oh yeah - under the current system, you can't! Insurance companies would like it to stay that way too. there's no competition because it's impossible to compare prices. free market you say? you're dreaming..

Bingo. The current situation is that you have whoever your company chooses generally and any other option is throwing away their contribution.

And that's only because the government capped wages decades ago but allowed companies to pay for medical benefits.

And they aren't doing anything to address the ridiculous pricing schemes that people aren't privy to.

Isn't this a start tho?

https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/Statistics-Trends-and-Reports/Medicare-Provider-Charge-Data/index.html

Open competition and transparency goes a long way to challenge prices.



I'm really saddened that after failing countless times to overturn ACA that the GOP would threatened government shutdown for another attempt. I guess 2016's election will turn out like 2012's... THANKS BOEHNER! Maybe one of these days the party will stop being a joke, but sadly not this year.

[tjts1]

You know who gets government run healthcare? These lazy good for nothing freeloaders.

Look how miserable they are.